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Old 03-14-2015, 07:30 AM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,056,160 times
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There is an easy way to solve this. You make a contractor responsible for living up to their bid. If unable they go out of business. Would that slow things down? Maybe. Slower than what we see here? Not likely.

A contractor knows they can underbid making the costs appear more reasonable up front knowing once it's started that politicians are going to continue funding it no matter how out of control the costs become.

If the contractor is forced to bid what they actually think the job will costs the people can better decide if it's worth the cost. No one really thought 4.25 billion would end up anywhere close to actual costs.
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Old 03-14-2015, 07:50 AM
 
58,720 posts, read 27,070,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed from California View Post
What does Boston and Seattle have in common? Both are dem run cities in dem controlled states.
" Both are dem run cities in dem controlled states."

I don't know about Seattle but, Boston is definitely a "union" city which was one of the BIG reasons for the "big dig" fiasco.
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Old 03-14-2015, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,602,675 times
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I hate that federal funds are being used for projects, like this.

You choose to do business and live in an earthquake/hurricane/ fire/ flood etc. prone area, pay for it.
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Old 03-14-2015, 08:50 AM
 
4,569 posts, read 3,388,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
What Boston and Seattle have in common is they are next to a lot of water and are very difficult places to dig tunnels. Some of the ground in Boson was so soft the contractor froze it solid so the tunnel could be drilled under the railroad. Most of the work was cut and cover where the tunnel is built in a trench and later buried.

I have to wonder why the machine hit a unknown pipe. Something like that should have been discovered in the advanced planning stage of the project. Hopefully finding it recorded in the City construction permit archives. If the digging was in ground stable enough for a big tunnel machine the contractor could have drilled a smaller, say 8ft diameter, pilot tunnel to find things like the pipe or running ground or anything else that could stop the main part of the works. Yes, doing this level of investigation is expensive but so is losing two years of project time.
There is an extensive thread on this topic over at AA roads. The pipe that was hit was left from engineering test bores when designing the project that they forgot to remove. And don't forget to mention that buildings in the area of the "rescue tunnel" are having structural issues now.


You want to see more scandalous waste of transportation dollars, check out the new DC streetcar line: $195 million, complete, and they may decide to never make it operational.
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Old 03-14-2015, 09:12 AM
 
191 posts, read 171,595 times
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Federal Funds make up less than 25% of the 3.1 billion dollar project. If all the doom and gloomers including environmentalists along with certain Republicans ran Seattle they wouldn't have Century Link Field and the Seahawks, Safeco Field and the Mariners, and the Huskies would be playing in an old outdated stadium. There would also be no new bridge being built across Lake Washington. Seattle is one of the fastest growing cities in the country. There hasn't been a gas tax passed in Washington that hasn't had a lot of Republican support. The only thing I find controversial about the tunnel is that its too bad an American made boring machine wasn't being used. They used to make them in Kent, Wa years ago. Seattle has plenty of experience digging tunnels.

FHWA Office of Innovative Program Delivery: Project Profiles
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Old 03-14-2015, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,465 posts, read 11,243,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Same major cost over-runs and delays hit the project around Boston.

Big snafu.
Yes, they ran into the prevailing wage requirement.
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Old 03-14-2015, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,093,584 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
You mean if it is completed. There were some pretty serious calls to scrap the project after it got stuck in Dec, 2013, but they were overruled by Sen Curtis King (R, Yakima) who is transportation chair.

If the machine gets stuck again, soon after it restarts supposedly in August, those calls will return. If everything goes perfectly drilling could be done around mid 2016. If the previous pace of approx. 2000 feet/yr is matched, drilling will not be done until about 2019.

We have scrapped big projects like this before. The Seattle Monorail project collected and spent about $200 million in taxes before the project was deemed unworkable and scrapped. Under Ron Sims, the county spent $40 million on a new county payroll software system before the whole thing was scrapped.
I think it will be completed, there is too much at stake with infrastructure not to complete it. But it is something only time will tell.
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Old 03-14-2015, 10:21 AM
 
Location: New York Area
34,734 posts, read 16,758,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed from California View Post
What does Boston and Seattle have in common? Both are dem run cities in dem controlled states.
Same story with the Number 7 line extension in New York City (link). Projected opening just pushed back fro February 24, 2015 to "sometime between April and June." We shall see. I don't think DiBlasio can run a lemonade stand.
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Old 03-14-2015, 10:24 AM
 
Location: New York Area
34,734 posts, read 16,758,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vvega View Post
And the "discovery" of this proximity to water is so recent, nobody had a way to plan for it in advance.
Blame it on global warming.
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Old 03-14-2015, 10:25 AM
 
Location: New York Area
34,734 posts, read 16,758,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
I bet a couple hundred illegals from Yakima armed with picks and shovels could have dug the hole for a few million bucks.
That's how the Transcontinental Railroad and the New York City water tunnels were built. Is it any wonder that political correctness yields shuffling rather than building?
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