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Old 03-24-2015, 10:17 AM
 
9,981 posts, read 8,565,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
How do you reconcile your position with the fact that many very real, everyday people saw the plane that hit the pentagon? Please explain why we should assume that you're right, and that all those people didn't actually see what they say they saw. If you can't do even that much, then your position is kind of silly, don't you think?
Many people reported seeing a low-flying plane heading towards the Pentagon. Thanks to a series of videotaped interviews with multiple witnesses by the Citizens Investigation Team, we find out that: (a) a plane did approach the Pentagon, but it was smaller than a Boeing 757, and it approached from a different angle than reported by the 9/11 commission; (b) the plane did not actually hit the Pentagon, but instead flew past the Pentagon at under 200 feet – immediately after the missile hit; (c) the downed flag poles at the Pentagon were staged, which was admitted by the taxi driver whose taxi was supposedly hit by one of the falling poles.
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,431,094 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
workingclasshero, I am a "no-planer" concerning the Pentagon attack.
When Donald Rumsfled said a missile hit the Pentagon, then he stopped himself,
that was a slip of the truth. Just like when he said trillions were missing from the
Pentagon budget the day before the attacks. the missile hit the Pentagon accounting
office.
1. rummy (who I cant stand) said it hit LIKE A MISSILE
2. it did NOT hit the accounting office...it hit the G1 (personnel office)


3. don't bring up the 2.3 trillion missing bull...been debunked thousands of times
did you even READ the about the ''issue''

in the ACCOUNTING for FY 96, 97, 98, 99 of the DOD BUDGET there was RECIEPTS missing and 2.3 trillion was not DOCUMENTED were EXACTLY it was spent

there NEVER was 2.3 t of ACTUAL money missing

fact..2.3 trillion was UNACCOUNTED FOR from the CLINTON ADMIN..

fact they found (accounted for every penny)
oh please you are not going to bring that garbage up again

the money was NEVER missing, just unaccounted in balancing the book during the CLINTON admin...had ZERO to do with Rummy


so you(and all the twoofers) saying that rummy stole 2.3 trill.....is a LIE

Read the 1999 DoD audit report. $2.3 TRILLION unaccounted for under the CLINTON admin.

yes it was all accounted for

Quote:
Zakheim Seeks To Corral, Reconcile 'Lost' Spending
By Gerry J. Gilmore American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, Feb. 20, 2002 -- As part of military transformation efforts, DoD Comptroller Dov S. Zakheim and his posse of accountants are riding the Pentagon's financial paper trail, seeking to corral billions of dollars in so-called "lost" expenditures.

For years, DoD and congressional officials have sought to reconcile defense financial documents to determine where billions in expenditures have gone. That money didn't fall down a hole, but is simply waiting to be accounted for, Zakheim said in a Feb. 14 interview with the American Forces Information Service. Complicating matters, he said, is that DoD has 674 different computerized accounting, logistics and personnel systems.

Most of the 674 systems "don't talk to one another unless somebody 'translates,'" he remarked. This situation, he added, makes it hard to reconcile financial data.

Billions of dollars of DoD taxpayer-provided money haven't disappeared, Zakheim said. "Missing" expenditures are often reconciled a bit later in the same way people balance their checkbooks every month. The bank closes out a month and sends its bank statement, he said. In the meanwhile, people write more checks, and so they have to reconcile their checkbook register and the statement.

DoD financial experts, Zakheim said, are making good progress reconciling the department's "lost" expenditures, trimming them from a prior estimated total of $2.3 trillion to $700 billion. And, he added, the amount continues to drop.

"We're getting it down and we are redesigning our systems so we'll go down from 600-odd systems to maybe 50," he explained.

"That way, we will give people not so much more money, but a comfort factor, to be sure that every last taxpayer penny is accounted for," he concluded
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Feb2...200202201.html

----------------------------------------------------------
Defense.gov News Article: Zakheim Seeks To Corral, Reconcile 'Lost' Spending

Defense.gov News Article: Reforming Financial Management System Can Save Big

--------------------------------------------------------

from 2000
Pentagon's finances in disarray

By JOHN M. DONNELLY The Associated Press 03/03/2000 5:44 PM Eastern

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The military's money managers last year made almost $7 trillion in adjustments to their financial ledgers in an attempt to make them add up, the Pentagon's inspector general said in a report released Friday.

The Pentagon could not show receipts for $2.3 trillion of those changes, and half a trillion dollars of it was just corrections of mistakes made in earlier adjustments.

Each adjustment represents a Defense Department accountant's attempt to correct a discrepancy. The military has hundreds of computer systems to run accounts as diverse as health care, payroll and inventory. But they are not integrated, don't produce numbers up to accounting standards and fail to keep running totals of what's coming in and what's going out, Pentagon and congressional officials said.

"These ($6.9 trillion in) entries were processed to force financial data to agree with various data sources, to correct errors and to add new data," the inspector general said. "The magnitude of accounting entries required to compile the DoD financial statements highlights the significant problems DoD has producing accurate and reliable financial statements with existing systems and processes."

The department's "internal controls were not adequate to ensure that resources were properly managed and accounted for, that DoD complied with applicable laws and regulations and that the financial statements were free of material misstatements," the report said.
"One expects that the financial statements of an entity, whether of an agency or a company, should reflect accurately what the department or company has and fairly present the results of their operations," said Jay Lane, chief of the inspector general's finance and accounting directorate. "We're saying we can't audit that to tell you that."

The military says it owns $119.3 billion in ships, trucks, jet engines and more. But its inspector general said he could not verify that because records lacked supporting documentation.

The U.S. military's financial records are not in good enough shape to face an audit, let alone pass one, the inspector general said.

As jumbled as its books are, the Pentagon is not alone: Only 11 of 24 big federal agencies could produce reliable financial statements for the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, said Sen. Fred Thompson, R-Tenn., chairman of the Senate Governmental Affairs committee.

Still, the Pentagon had much more not to account for than the other 10 agencies. The military says it spent $275.5 billion in fiscal 1999, just under half of the $575 billion Congress appropriated for the federal government, according to Lisa Jacobson, director of defense financial audits at the General Accounting Office. The GAO is Congress' auditing arm.

The inability to account for where the money went doesn't just make the military less efficient, she and others said, but also makes the armed forces less responsive to the will of Congress. Without sound costing data, the Pentagon can't make good decisions, they contend. For example, they say, the military can't measure the results of closing a base; can't effectively decide whether to contract out a service or keep it in government hands; may inaccurately peg the cost of programs under debate, from national missile defense to retirees' health care.

"Last year, the Defense Department corrected errors in its bookkeeping that totaled $2.3 trillion -- more than the entire federal budget," Thompson said in a statement, calling them "changes made to plug holes for things they couldn't explain."

"Congress is not assured that DoD is spending money in accordance with its wishes," the GAO's Jacobson said.

Despite their criticisms, Jacobson and others say the Pentagon is improving. Its comptroller, William Lynn, said in a statement that the military's computer systems are good enough to make it accountable to Congress. But he added: "Unfortunately, they do not do a good job of producing financial statements."

The first year agencies were required to say whether their books could be audited was fiscal 1996. This is the fourth consecutive year the Pentagon has answered no.

"When you spend money, you account for it -- that is required in the federal government," Jacobson said. "But DoD doesn't have that. They just say, ... `We had money, we spent it.'

"Then they try to go back later and say how they spent it and try to pull the balance sheet together."

https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,1756258&hl=en
--------------------








try actually reading and researching, instead of bring up 14 year old debunked twoofer lies
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,660 posts, read 23,982,865 times
Reputation: 14992
That's it? That's your explanation? Your link sent me to a rehash of the interview with the aging former federal agent, on a website registered using a proxy service, and which is affiliated with rense.com, and where they talk about the conclusion reached by two guys calling themselves "Citizen Investigation Team", who is also using a proxy service for their domain registration, and whose website is just another truther clone site. Just making sure you were aware of all that, because those are some pretty serious obstacles to overcome if you're wanting people to believe that you're right and all of these people are wrong.

BTW, the reason I mention the proxy registrations is because no legitimate business or organization does this. They're used primarily by private individuals and people who have something to hide. Why would "Citizens Investigation Team" need to hide their identity from the general public? Same with "Veterans Today" - surely a legitimate veterans organization would use their proper business identity on their domain registration, wouldn't they?

You need to look past the words your reading and look at who's writing them. If they're hiding who they are, don't you think a little scrutiny of what they're saying is in order, instead of just blindly accepting it because it's what you want to hear?

Sorry, but your response is a non-starter. You haven't even begun to address the eyewitnesses.
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,431,094 times
Reputation: 9618
Abshire, Marc Air Force Lt. Col. Marc Abshire, 40, a speechwriter for Air Force Secretary James Roche, was working on several speeches this morning when he felt the blast of the explosion at the Pentagon. His office is on the D ring, near the eighth corridor, he said. "It shot me back in my chair. There was a huge blast. I could feel the air shock wave of it," Abshire said. "I didn't know exactly what it was. It didn't rumble. It was more of a direct smack. I said, 'This isn't right. Something's wrong here.'" "We all went out in the hallway. People were yelling 'Evacuate! Evacuate!' And we found ourselves on the lawn and looking back on our building. It was very much a surrealistic sort of experience. It's just definitely not right to see smoke coming out of the Pentagon. It was a very strange sight to see."
washingtonpost.com

Anderson, Steve I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11. From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River. ... Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke.
September 11, 2001
Anderson, Ted Lt. Col. Ted Anderson : "We ran to the end of our building, turned left and saw nothing but huge, billowing black smoke, and a brilliant, brilliant explosion of fire." (...) One of the Pentagon's two fire trucks was parked only 50 feet from the crash site, and it was "totally engulfed in flames," Anderson says. Nearby, tanks full of propane and aviation fuel had begun igniting, and they soon began exploding, one by one. (...) Back in the building again, Anderson said he began "screaming and hollering for people as secondary and third-order explosions started going off. One of them was a fire department car exploding-I think my right eardrum exploded at the same time, and it unequivocally scared the heck out of me."
msnbc: news, video and progressive community. Lean Forward.
Anlauf, Deb & Jeff Mrs. Deb Anlauf, resident of Colfax, Wisconsin, was in her 14th floor of the Sheraton Hotel [located 1.6 mile from the explosion], (immediately west of the Navy Annex) when she heard a "loud roar": Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window. You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible. "Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook. (...) Jeff didn't feel the impact of the plane crash as directly as his wife. He was attending an environmental meeting on the second floor of the hotel when the plane struck the Pentagon. About five seconds before the crash, Jeff said he heard the sound of "tin being dropped," likely as construction workers building an addition to the hotel saw the plane and dropped their building materials. "Then, about 5 seconds later, the whole hotel shook," Jeff recalled. "I could feel it moving. We said 'Oh, my gosh, what's going on?' "
http://www.leadertelegram.com/specia...etail.asp?ID=7
Battle Battle, an office worker at the Pentagon, was standing outside the building and just about to enter when the aircraft struck. "It was coming down head first," he said. "And when the impact hit, the cars and everything were just shaking."
http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news..._dcscene.shtml

Bauer, Gary Gary Bauer, a former Presidential candidate, happened to be driving into Washington, D.C. that morning, to a press conference on Capitol Hill. "I was in a massive traffic jam, hadn't moved more than a hundred yards in twenty minutes. ... I had just passed the closest place the Pentagon is to the exit on 395 . . . when all of a sudden I heard the roar of a jet engine. I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn't until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment." massnews.com / Amy Contrada / December 2001
Gary Bauer Identifies the Enemy at MFI Banquet

Bauer, Gary "...came from behind us and banked to the right and went into the Pentagon." Interview with Warren Smith
Thecharlotteworld.com

Beans, Michael Anger and guilt still sear Lieutenant Colonel Michael Beans who shakes his head ruefully and asks himself why he survived: "Why you, not them? Who made that decision?" (...) Inside the Pentagon, the blast lifted Beans off the floor as he crossed a huge open office toward his desk. "You heard this huge concussion, then the room filled with this real bright light, just like everything was encompassed within this bright light," said Beans. "As soon as I hit the floor, all the lights went out, there was a small fire starting to burn." His friends were not so lucky. Not far away on the same floor, Beans' once familiar world had turned into a terrifying maze as well. Opening a door to the outer E-ring corridor, Beans saw waves of fire rolling towards him like surf on a beach. Turning back, he groped slowly back across the room on hands and knees. The sprinkler came on and that kept the smoke and heat down. But it was nervewracking and Beans was alone, listening as the building burned. "It was so quiet," he recalled. "There was no screaming, nobody saying anything, just nothing." He thought he might not make it out alive. He thought about his wife, his daughter and son, his 22 years in the army. "I remember taking a couple of breaths there, and I made up my mind: I just can't go out this way," he said. Suddenly out of the smoke a man ran by. "I tried to grab him, and I tried to yell at him," Beans said. But "he just disappeared into the smoke." Alone again, Beans crawled with his face to the floor. Then the carpet turned to wet tile, and he looked up and saw he was in a corridor. He ran and as the smoke cleared, he saw a guard. Beans discovered later that his head and forearms were burned. He now wears special flesh-colored compression sleeves on his arms. "These burns are going to heal, eventually," he said. But the memories "will be with me for the rest of my life."
theosuobserver.com Blogs
Begala, Paul Paul Begala, a Democratic consultant, said he witnessed an explosion near the Pentagon. "It was a huge fireball, a huge, orange fireball," he said in an interview on his mobile phone. He said another witness told him a helicopter exploded. AP, Washington, 9/12/2001 11:45:33 PM
Pentagon eyewitness accounts | World news | The Guardian
Bell, Mickey Mickey Bell : The jet came in from the south and banked left as it entered the building, narrowly missing the Singleton Electric trailer and the on-site foreman, Mickey Bell. Bell had just left the trailer when he heard a loud noise. The next thing he recalled was picking himself off the floor, where he had been thrown by the blast. Bell, who had been less than 100 feet from the initial impact of the plane, was nearly struck by one of the plane's wings as it sped by him. In shock, he got into his truck, which had been parked in the trailer compound, and sped away. He wandered around Arlington in his truck and tried to make wireless phone calls. He ended up back at Singleton's headquarters in Gaithersburg two hours later, according to President Singleton, not remembering much. The full impact of the closeness of the crash wasn't realized until coworkers noticed damage to Bell's work vehicle. He had plastic and rivets from an airplane imbedded in its sheet metal, but Bell had no idea what had happened. During Bell's close call, other Singleton workers, including sub-foreman Greg Cobaugh, were doing other work on the first and third floors. The blast wasn't very loud to them. They were talking about reports that two planes crashed into the World Trade Center in Manhattan, New York - not considering the noise they heard could be a similar attack.
404 - Page Not Found
Benedetto, Richard Richard Benedetto, a USA TODAY reporter, was on his way to work, driving on the Highway parrallel to the Pentagon : "It was an American Airlines airplane, I could see it very clearly.(...) I didn't see the impact. (...) The sound itself sounded more like a thud rather than a bomb (...) rather than a loud bomb explosion it sounded muffled, heavy, very deep. I didn't see any flaps, it looked like the plane was just in normal flying mode but heading straight down. It was straight. The only thing we saw on the ground outside there was a piece of a ... the tail of a lamp post. (Video)
high bandwidth : http://digipressetmp3.teaser.fr/uplo...Benedetto2.ram
low bandwidth : http://digipressetmp3.teaser.fr/uplo.../Benedetto.ram (

Biggert, Judy Members of Congress have been shuttled to the site to inspect the damage. Rep. Judy Biggert (R-Ill.) made the trip on Thursday. She saw remnants of the airplane. 'There was a seat from a plane, there was part of the tail and then there was a part of green metal, I could not tell what it was, a part of the outside of the plane,' she said. 'It smelled like it was still burning.'
Birdwell, Brian LTC Brian Birdwell. He was just heading back down the hall to his office when the building exploded in front of him. The flash fire was immediate and the smoke was thick. The blast had thrown him down, giving him a concussion. He wanted to head down the hall toward the A ring...but because he couldn't see anything he had no idea which way to go and he didn't want to head in the wrong direction. (...) Once they stabilized Brian, they transferred him to George Washington Hospital where...the best, cutting edge burn doctor in the U.S. The doctor told him that had he not gone to Georgetown first, he probably would not have survived because of the jet fuel in his lungs.
http://www.aog.usma.edu/Class/1961/BirdwellLuncheon.htm
Birdwell, Brian Down the hall from Yates, Lt. Col. Brian Birdwell, 40, had been at his desk in Room 2E486 since 6:30 a.m. (...) Birdwell walked out to the men's room in corridor 4, a move that saved his life. He had just taken three or four steps out of the bathroom when the building was rocked. "Bomb!" the Gulf War vet immediately thought as he was knocked down. When he stood up, he realized he was on fire. "Jesus, I'm coming to see you"

Boger, Sean Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building." "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." The crew, Boger and Spc. Jacqueline Kidd, air traffic controller and training supervisor, prepared for President George W. Bush to arrive from Florida around 12:30 p.m.
http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/penta...s/12049-1.html
Bouchoux, Donald R. Donald R. Bouchoux, 53, a retired Naval officer, a Great Falls resident, a Vietnam veteran and former commanding officer of a Navy fighter squadron, was driving west from Tysons Corner to the Pentagon for a 10am meeting. He wrote: At 9:40 a.m. I was driving down Washington Boulevard (Route 27) along the side of the Pentagon when the aircraft crossed about 200 yards [should be more than 150 yards from the impact] in front of me and impacted the side of the building. There was an enormous fireball, followed about two seconds later by debris raining down. The car moved about a foot to the right when the shock wave hit. I had what must have been an emergency oxygen bottle from the airplane go flying down across the front of my Explorer and then a second piece of jagged metal come down on the right side of the car. Washington Post, Sept. 20, 2001
Business Solutions & Software for Legal, Education and Government | LexisNexis...
Bowman, John John Bowman, a retired Marine lieutenant colonel and a contractor, was in his office in Corridor Two near the main entrance to the south parking lot. "Everything was calm,' Bowman said. "Most people knew it was a bomb. Everyone evacuated smartly. We have a good sprinkling of military people who have been shot at."
http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/penta...s/10380-1.html
Braman, Chris Staff Sgt. Chris Braman : The lawn was littered with twisted pieces of aluminum. He saw one chunk painted with the letter ``A,'' another with a ``C.'' It didn't occur to Braman what the letters signified until a man in the crowd stooped to pick up one of the smaller metal shards. He examined it for a moment, then announced: ``This was a jet.''
Bright, Mark Defense Protective Service officers were the first on the scene of the terrorist attack. One, Mark Bright, actually saw the plane hit the building. He had been manning the guard booth at the Mall Entrance to the building. "I saw the plane at the Navy Annex area," he said. "I knew it was going to strike the building because it was very, very low -- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down." The plane would have been seconds from impact -- the annex is only a few hundred yards from the Pentagon. He said he heard the plane "power-up" just before it struck the Pentagon. "As soon as it struck the building I just called in an attack, because I knew it couldn't be accidental," Bright said. He jumped into his police cruiser and headed to the area.
http://www.dcmilitary.com/marines/he...s/10797-1.html

continued here... //www.city-data.com/forum/36364734-post348.html
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Old 03-24-2015, 12:45 PM
 
4,739 posts, read 4,425,591 times
Reputation: 2485
General retired in 1984 (a long time before 9/11) and is not diviulding any personal information

He was a bit nuts while in the military (
Quote:
A key sponsor of the Stargate Project (a remote viewing project) at Fort Meade, Maryland, Stubblebine was convinced of the reality of a wide variety of psychic phenomena).

so - I don't see how he could provide any meaningful input.. .other than pulling crap out of his demented ass.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post
This is a very important video and should be shared by truth warriors around the world.

www.youtube.com/v/Jc1ql4TfCZw

Watching a General in control of all the overseas armed forces having his belief system shattered gives me hope that those sceptics who watch this might also. I cant be sure though seeing most ppl have been so conditioned to just BELIEVE WHAT THEY ARE TOLD w/o question..... Its really very sad
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Old 03-24-2015, 12:49 PM
 
4,739 posts, read 4,425,591 times
Reputation: 2485
yeah, a lot of people saw that plane. . it was a commercial airplane and it flew right over Arlington. . actually I talked to a friend . . called him the VERY NEXT day and his story was chilling.

Work at home dad. he had quit his job because they started working on stem cells from babies. . and he is like a crazily devout catholic

so anyway. . .at home that morning.. i'm sure the news was on. Regardless he heard the jet. It was so loud he was sure it was going to hit his building. He dropped to the ground (covering his two kids). From his living room there is an unobstructed patio . .he is on the 2nd or 3rd story looking out . . over the hill you can see the faintest edge of the pentagon (not a good view of it). he saw the jet fly over, and then dip down on the other side of hill.

So no-planers are absolutely nuts, my friend wasn't the only one there.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
workingclasshero, I am a "no-planer" concerning the Pentagon attack.
When Donald Rumsfled said a missile hit the Pentagon, then he stopped himself,
that was a slip of the truth. Just like when he said trillions were missing from the
Pentagon budget the day before the attacks. the missile hit the Pentagon accounting
office.
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Old 03-24-2015, 03:14 PM
 
26,143 posts, read 19,767,810 times
Reputation: 17241
Question *

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc
There were lots of people who saw the actual crash...
Ya im sure there were........People who were given tons of $$$$$$$$$$$ to say they did!!!!

THINK ABOUT THIS: If a plane hit and it happend 100% like they said,WHY DID THEY TAKE ALL LIVE TAPED FOOTAGE FROM AROUND THAT BUILDING??

You tell me buddy......... CAMERAS TAPED WHAT REALLY HAPPEND...... Why did they take them??? IF THEY HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE??


I would like an answer please..
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Old 03-24-2015, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,431,094 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post
Ya im sure there were........People who were given tons of $$$$$$$$$$$ to say they did!!!!

THINK ABOUT THIS: If a plane hit and it happend 100% like they said,WHY DID THEY TAKE ALL LIVE TAPED FOOTAGE FROM AROUND THAT BUILDING??

You tell me buddy......... CAMERAS TAPED WHAT REALLY HAPPEND...... Why did they take them??? IF THEY HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE??


I would like an answer please..
uhm...what cameras...

plenty of cameras INSIDE the pentagon....

not so many outside of it....never was

again you are believing the lies of the twoofers, who can handle the fact that a planes hit our buildings

what footage there was has been released...

but we understand...you wont believe any evidence that is presented to you...you have already pre-judged
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