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"Ok. Many people believe that a fetus is a human; therefore, the idea of killing that human is even more disgusting to them than the idea of stomping the heads of unwanted dogs."
Yes, but pretty much everyone agrees that killing a dog is a lesser crime than killing a fully developed human. The same applies in the case of fetuses. Pro-lifers have already conceded that abortion is a lesser crime than premeditated murder because they've never suggesting charging a doctor as a contract killer and a woman as if she ordered a hit. So now the only question that remains is how much moral consideration a fetus is entitled to. In the first trimester, when the vast majority of abortions are performed, I'd argue very little.
Yes, but pretty much everyone agrees that killing a dog is a lesser crime than killing a fully developed human. The same applies in the case of fetuses. Pro-lifers have already conceded that abortion is a lesser crime than premeditated murder because they've never suggesting charging a doctor as a contract killer and a woman as if she ordered a hit. So now the only question that remains is how much moral consideration a fetus is entitled to. In the first trimester, when the vast majority of abortions are performed, I'd argue very little.
So point 1 is that everyone agrees that abortion is a lesser crime than premeditated murder of a fully developed person. Okay, check. So now point 2 is that the only question that remains is how much moral consideration a fetus is entitled to? Woah, hold your horses. You can't go from point 1 to point 2 there. You just made a gigantic leap there.
Everyone agrees that rape is a worse crime than fraud. So now the only question left is how morally wrong fraud is? No. Fraud is still a crime. It being a lesser crime than rape doesn't magically make it simply a moral question.
Kill them. They aren't perfect, kill them. If you can't be like me you should die.
FYI most all women who undergo a late term abortion have severly ill babies who will die shortly after birth or live in constant pain for a few months until they do die. conditiions like this are best left to the doctor and the woman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeyore1954
Isn't there also a list of horrible medical conditions that can occur after birth?
sure I agree, lots of terrible things happen to living people. this has no connection to a pregnancy that is dependent on a womb.
"So point 1 is that everyone agrees that abortion is a lesser crime than premeditated murder of a fully developed person. Okay, check. So now point 2 is that the only question that remains is how much moral consideration a fetus is entitled to? Woah, hold your horses. You can't go from point 1 to point 2 there. You just made a gigantic leap there.
Everyone agrees that rape is a worse crime than fraud. So now the only question left is how morally wrong fraud is? No. Fraud is still a crime. It being a lesser crime than rape doesn't magically make it simply a moral question.
Your reasoning there doesn't hold up."
Oh, you've actually decided to respond to something I wrote! And to think I've been callingyouout for a couple of days ...
In the case of this post, I'm not sure what your argument is. If you agree that abortion is a lesser crime than premeditated murder (which is a lesser crime than killing a dog, etc.), then it seems to me you've necessarily concluded that a fetus deserves less moral consideration than a fully developed human being. Likewise, I think you're getting wrapped up in the moral/legal distinction. With few exceptions (drug use, wearing your seat belt?), morality is the basis of law and ALL crimes are moral infractions, but not every moral infraction is a crime (adultery, etc.). Many proponents of legal abortion put it in the latter category.
Last edited by drishmael; 03-24-2015 at 09:05 PM..
FYI most all women who undergo a late term abortion have severly ill babies who will die shortly after birth or live in constant pain for a few months until they do die. conditiions like this are best left to the doctor and the woman.
I've already covered this.
And I'll be quite frank: most of my abortions are elective in that 20-24 week range. . . . In my particular case, probably 20% [of this procedure] are for genetic reasons. And the other 80% are purely elective.
"[A]fter 20 weeks where it frankly is a child to me, I really agonize over it because the potential is so imminently there. I think, 'Gee, it's too bad that this child couldn't be adopted.' On the other hand, I have another position, which I think is superior in the hierarchy of questions, and that is: 'Who owns the child?' It's got to be the mother.'"
Dr James McMahon. American Medical News July 1993.
loriinwa"I remember when I was indoctrinated into progressive thinking...all I worried about was abortion, abortion, abortion. My mother (a conservative) told me that R v W was never going away. That was over 30 years ago."
Smart woman. It is NEVER going away. Why a party would lose tons of vote over it (single women went 67-31% in favor of Obama) is idiotic. It is the law of the land.
loriinwa"I remember when I was indoctrinated into progressive thinking...all I worried about was abortion, abortion, abortion. My mother (a conservative) told me that R v W was never going away. That was over 30 years ago."
Smart woman. It is NEVER going away. Why a party would lose tons of vote over it (single women went 67-31% in favor of Obama) is idiotic. It is the law of the land.
its idiotic to debate abortion using tax payers funds.........its real stupid to bring up abortion on demand which its ending a life using tax payers funds because political votes is more important than principle.
Since most women are low information voters and vote democrat on that issue, the rest of us should just shut up and NEVER bring up the debate because if you do, you hate women.....that is the democrat narrative.
Slavery was the law of the land....Jim Crow was the law of the land and both were political popular one time in our country (funny both were laws supported by Democrats)....I guess we should just shut up and never bring it up for debate because winning elections is more important than principle for democrats.
Do you realize that abortion is a judicial decision NOT a political one? The stance of any candidate doesn't matter a hill of beans. The courts decide this one. It's only an issue when voting for judges.
I do not get why people decide who to vote for based on issues that the person they're voting for does not control.
The answer is pretty simple.
Because the person you are voting for is the one who will appoint the judges who do make the decisions.
This is a Hot Topic and I like a good debate but the personal attacks? If you don't like what I wrote then please stop reading it. The last time I checked this was still a free country and I am entitled to my opinion. There is to be no reading between the lines and making stuff up. If you want to simply read what I wrote and express your opinion without the personal attacks.
Romney lost for many reasons but one of those was his Pro Life Stance. The Dems took it and ran to the extreme with it. I remember seeing online ads where women had written slogans on their stomaches such as "hands off my womb" . The average American voter does not realise that reversing Roe V Wade would be next to impossible but all it takes to demonise the conservative candidate is for the Dems. to create a sound bite that suggests otherwise.
My thoughts to prevent this type of attack on the Rep. candidate from the left is to simply have him clarify his own belief and make sure it will be a non issue in the election.
Words can be used as weapons against you and all I am saying is why give your opponent ammunition.
What about the average Republican politician?
Ya know, the ones who waste valuable legislative time and taxpayer dollars trying to legislate abortion out of existence? Over and over and over and over and over and over............
What does that tell you about their priorities, their intelligence?
Why don't they spend their time drafting legislation that can make a difference instead of pursuing feel good legislation that they know is going nowhere?
Why would I want to vote for a party that wastes my tax dollars like that?
Democrats aren't the ones who keep the abortion issue front and center, it's Republicans who just can't let it go.
It's Republicans that use the issue to whip up their base, even though they know it is a dead issue, according to you.
So, which is it?
Republican politicians really do believe they can put an end to abortion or are they just lying to their constituents to garner money and votes?
Abortion is a medical decision made by an individual with the counsel of her physician. It is a matter of individual freedom to control their own bodies. It is of no concern of strangers. We, especially men, should respect a woman's privacy and freedom and keep our opinions to ourselves. It is quite literally none of our business.
Because at some point it's the life of a human baby we are talking about, not a wart or a hangnail.
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The stance of any candidate doesn't matter a hill of beans. The courts decide this one. It's only an issue when voting for judges.
