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View Poll Results: Do You Think Sexual Orientation is a Case of "Nature" or "Nurture?"
Nature 72 58.54%
Nurture 16 13.01%
A Bit of Both 37 30.08%
I'm Not Sure 2 1.63%
Other (Please Specify Below) 3 2.44%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-17-2008, 04:08 PM
 
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I'm no scientist but the answer is probably both "nature" and "nurture", if by nurture you mean environmental factors. Maybe birth order, perhaps some kind of pre-natal exposure, who knows. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually find several genes that gays have in common to various degrees. I do highly doubt they will find a single "gay gene" that makes people gay. It could very well be that gay genes are the same genes that are linked with behavioral characteristics such as openness to new experiences/novelty seeking, or perhaps a tendency to neuroticism (just as possible examples). I've only had some psychology in college as a minor (many years ago), but it would be interesting to see if gays had similar character traits in terms of multiphasic inventories, and so on.
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Magnulus View Post
I'm no scientist but the answer is probably both "nature" and "nurture", if by nurture you mean environmental factors. Maybe birth order, perhaps some kind of pre-natal exposure, who knows. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually find several genes that gays have in common to various degrees. I do highly doubt they will find a single "gay gene" that makes people gay. It could very well be that gay genes are the same genes that are linked with behavioral characteristics such as openness to new experiences/novelty seeking, or perhaps a tendency to neuroticism (just as possible examples). I've only had some psychology in college as a minor (many years ago), but it would be interesting to see if gays had similar character traits in terms of multiphasic inventories, and so on.
Of course it's both. People have genetic predispositions towards lots of things that may or may not ever actually develop. And lots of things develop for which no genetic predisposition existed. My brother and I have alcoholics on both sides of the family, yet I never developed any addiction issues while he has. Did I luck out and not get the gene? Was there no gene, and we just had a bunch of hard partiers in our family? Or is it likely that both factors are involved?

And what difference does it make? Is an alcoholic absolved because he had a genetic predisposition towards addiction?
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Yes, I'm conservative. Rule 6 means that the same people who go on about the inherency of homosexuality will also talk about how gender roles are learned...so which is it? If homosexuality, who you are attracted to, is inherent in your genes, why can't male and female behavioral traits also be genetic?
Actually, it is possible to believe that both homosexuality is natural and gender roles are artificial. That's not self-contradictory, since gender identity/construction and sexual orientation are not the same thing at all. There is plenty of evidence that gender roles are highly socialized behavior, whereas there is much less evidence that homosexuality is socialized. Certainly there may be biological influences over gender construction but it's a far cry from saying that gender roles in the western world are "natural".

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Of course it's both. People have genetic predispositions towards lots of things that may or may not ever actually develop. And lots of things develop for which no genetic predisposition existed. My brother and I have alcoholics on both sides of the family, yet I never developed any addiction issues while he has. Did I luck out and not get the gene? Was there no gene, and we just had a bunch of hard partiers in our family? Or is it likely that both factors are involved?

And what difference does it make? Is an alcoholic absolved because he had a genetic predisposition towards addiction?
The difference is alcoholism harms other people, homosexuality does not. Homosexuality is no longer considered a disease, whereas many people, including the medical community, view alcoholism as a disease or psychological condition worthy of treatment. Alcoholics are indeed responsible for their behaviors in the legal sense but they are not responsible for their addiction to alcohol in the medical sense.

Last edited by Magnulus; 01-17-2008 at 04:27 PM..
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Magnulus View Post
Actually, it is possible to believe that both homosexuality is natural and gender roles are artificial. That's not self-contradictory, since gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same thing at all. It is possible for a person who is biologicly male to indentify themselves more with the female gender, and yet at the same time be attracted to women. Indeed, there are many real life cases of such things happening.
The mental acrobatics the liberal mind must go through to function every day is truly astounding.
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:22 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
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Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Yes, I'm conservative. Rule 6 means that the same people who go on about the inherency of homosexuality will also talk about how gender roles are learned...so which is it? If homosexuality, who you are attracted to, is inherent in your genes, why can't male and female behavioral traits also be genetic?
I believe they can be and in some cases they are.

As someone who's been around animals all my life and once contemplated a veterinary career it seems to me that MANY behaviors that we consider to be purely human (from picking on nerds, to finding people or animals with large eyes cute) have their core in the animal part of us rather than the cultural. Instinct is one of those things that we don't recognize in ourselves because it's so basic that we just take it for granted, don't think about it, and don't even see it - but it's there, with us everyday, in everything we do.

So, yeah, I beleive that women tend to have stronger maternal instincts than men - who are programmed by nature to spread their genes. Should women be forced to take those rolls? No of course not. Everyone should have a choice in what they do with their lives. But will more women than men end up taking the traditional roll of raising the children. You bet they will - and not JUST because of the culture.

Folks love to go to the zoo and watch the monkeys and apes. Why? Well, in part because they see those creatures behaving in somewhat human ways and we find that fascinating. What most folks don't think about is the fact that maybe THEY are not showing behaviors similar to humans, but rather that WE exhibit behaviors similar to the animals - and have been exhibiting those behaviors in one form or another since we were "mere" animals ourselves.

We're not that different from the animals and we don't always consciously make the choices we think we do.

Sometimes the animal part of us works on instinct...
...and we don't even realize it.

Ken

Last edited by LordBalfor; 01-17-2008 at 05:05 PM..
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:12 PM
 
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Excellent points. Most behaviors people think of as human... aren't particularly unique to our species, and some behaviors that are very uniquely human, most people actually don't indentify with alot. To get more philosophical, I don't believe modern humans are near their mental or behavioral limitations, most of our potential is underutilized.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Magnulus View Post
Excellent points. Most behaviors people think of as human... aren't particularly unique to our species, and some behaviors that are very uniquely human, most people actually don't indentify with alot. To get more philosophical, I don't believe modern humans are near their mental or behavioral limitations, most of our potential is underutilized.
Homosexual behavior IS present in animals, but it has generally only been observed when animals are taken out of their habitats and thrown harsh, crowded conditions, such as a zoo, where their natural instincts are pretty well stifled. Much like a city, if you think about it.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post

We're not that different from the animals and we don't always consciously make the choices we think we do.

Sometimes the animal part of us works on instinct...
...and we don't even realize it.

Ken
Excuse me? I have been around animals all my life as well, do you know that they like to eat their OWN and often other animals feces? Still dont understand the up side of the homosexual community to compare themselves with animals!
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:33 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,211,281 times
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Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Homosexual behavior IS present in animals, but it has generally only been observed when animals are taken out of their habitats and thrown harsh, crowded conditions, such as a zoo, where their natural instincts are pretty well stifled. Much like a city, if you think about it.
Very true.

The world is a very strange and complicated place. There are even species who's members change sex upon a shortage of one or the other sexes (a clownfish colony for example always has one dominant female. When she dies, the most dominant male changes sex and takes her place) while some creatures (notable aphids) are actually BORN pregnant (try and wrap your mind around that one!)

Sexuality is not so straightforward as it seems at first and there are many cases where the lines are blurred.

Ken

Last edited by LordBalfor; 01-17-2008 at 05:42 PM..
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by silas777 View Post
Excuse me? I have been around animals all my life as well, do you know that they like to eat their OWN and often other animals feces? Still dont understand the up side of the homosexual community to compare themselves with animals!
Humans eat other humans all the time.
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