Sexual Orientations---"Nature" or "Nurture?" (interview, regular, brainwashing)
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I have spent many years first feeling like ending my life for being a "mistake" of God for having this "affliction" of an alternative sexual orientation, but I have since become a vociferous advocate for gay rights.
With that vignette out of the way, let me now address the issue at hand. I see a lot of right-wingers on this forum proudly spewing out comments like "If you want to get married, then marry a woman," or "Being gay is a choice." These statements obviously make the assumption that sexual orientations can be changed in similar fashion to a muddied pair of jeans or traded like baseball cards.
I myself have spent years struggling through prayer to "cure" myself to no avail. I spent three years lonesome and depressed, thinking that if I had removed myself from personal relationships for long enough that I'd lose my "gay disease." That never occurred. I had no trouble finding female suitors in the past and attempted to "change" my sexual orientation by taking them out on dates, listening to them talk about their hopes and dreams in life, etc., but I just ended up with more close friends who I had no romantic interest in. At least one year ago another well-respected moderator (I'll just say that he's a male) sent me a link to a Christian fundamentalist camp in either KY or TN that claimed it could "cure" people of being gay. I investigated this claim but then saw a documentary about similar camps, and the people they interviewed who claimed to be "healed" were downright creepy; they almost seemed emotionless, barely blinked, and I got the definite sense that they were simply adhering to social mores as opposed to living life as they were intended to. "Brainwashing" would be an accurate assessment in my eyes.
It is my personal belief that there is some sort of genetic and/or biological reason that determines one's sexual orientation. Little is still known about the Human Genome Project, and they may someday find that there is something in an individual that designates one's sexual orientation---just as with eye color, foot length, melanin levels, etc. If there is apparently no justifiable way to alter one's sexual orientation, then what else could explain this?
What do others think? Please discuss below. As I always I welcome the comments of right-wingers who disagree with me (Silas, Spunky, etc.), and I'd please ask left-wingers to not openly-attack them for their beliefs, even if they are unpopular in a nation that is (thankfully) starting to become more tolerant and less inclined to ready the pitchforks. As a die-hard left-winger myself, I'm often amazed at how venomous my fellow liberals (who will likely vote for "nature") become against the often softer-spoken conservatives (who will likely vote for "nurture").
I should also mention the following:
"Nature"---You believe there is some biological, genetic, etc. influence beyond one's control that causes one to become attracted to members of the opposite (or same) gender.
"Nurture"---You believe that societal/environmental influences determine one's sexual orientation. It is possible for someone to choose to be gay/lesbian based upon what they've been exposed to in life.
Last edited by SteelCityRising; 01-14-2008 at 09:46 PM..
Reason: Typo
How is this different from the gay discussion thread you previously started? The analysis of genetic vs social/cultural was pretty well covered in that thread.
How is this different from the gay discussion thread you previously started? The analysis of genetic vs social/cultural was pretty well covered in that thread.
Why should this be confined to just one thread? Immigration has its own sub-forum, and I couldn't care less about it. I started the "Gay Thread" to talk about issues pertaning to the LGBT community in general but became discouraged with it when everyone was being told they were "off-topic" while still talking about gay/lesbian issues. (Not at all to be taken as a personal jab at you, otr, or anyone else by any means, but I wasn't happy with how that thread disintegrated from what I had hoped it would have become). As such, I'll now be starting various threads that address specific topics within the LGBT community and society at-large.
I saw there was likewise support for a new "gun and second amendment" sub-forum in addition to the election and immigration ones, but if LGBT issues don't get their own too, then why seek to hamper discussion about it on the general politics forum?
"Nature"---You believe there is some biological, genetic, etc. influence beyond one's control that causes one to become attracted to members of the opposite (or same) gender.
"Nurture"---You believe that societal/environmental influences determine one's sexual orientation. It is possible for someone to choose to be gay/lesbian based upon what they've been exposed to in life.
I don't think the nature vs. nurture argument is the same thing as when people say "it's a choice." It is very likely that the societal/environmental/family influences can impact sexual orientation, but that's not the same thing as saying someone chooses it - no one chooses it. We are finding more and more that it is "natural" because other animals do it too.
I don't think the nature vs. nurture argument is the same thing as when people say "it's a choice." It is very likely that the societal/environmental/family influences can impact sexual orientation, but that's not the same thing as saying someone chooses it - no one chooses it. We are finding more and more that it is "natural" because other animals do it too.
Purplecow1 - I somewhat agree with you, with the exception of using animal behavior to justify anything - Their brains are inferior to our brains - They react to their environment. How about a dog humping anything in sight?...It certainly would not justify a guy on the subway humping a pole or the leg of someone standing next to him?
While I was growing up I knew several guys that became gay. The one thing that I noticed that they all had in common was strained relationships with their fathers, or their fathers were downright mean and abusive s.o.b.s (often regularly beating their wives).
I don't know if this is true for all, but it is for the guys that I knew.
I think it's nature. I never woke up and decided to be heterosexual. I was that way from day one. I could not have made any other choice.
Unfortunately, homosexuals are frequently the objects of ridicule or even worse, so I'm not sure that it would be a very popular choice. Also, if it were a choice, why would people try to hide it or try to change it?
As for the point about parental relationships having an influence, I think there are people who have very difficult emotional scars and they may act out in a sexual manner. However, I don't think that it's an expression of genuine sexuality as much as a response to emotional pain.
Purplecow1 - I somewhat agree with you, with the exception of using animal behavior to justify anything - Their brains are inferior to our brains - They react to their environment. How about a dog humping anything in sight?...It certainly would not justify a guy on the subway humping a pole or the leg of someone standing next to him?
While I was growing up I knew several guys that became gay. The one thing that I noticed that they all had in common was strained relationships with their fathers, or their fathers were downright mean and abusive s.o.b.s (often regularly beating their wives).
I don't know if this is true for all, but it is for the guys that I knew.
My father wasn't mean or abusive, but I didn't have a close relationship with him. I asked him about that once and he said when I was little, he tried to get me interested in sports, fishing, hunting (basically the only things he knows about) and I showed no interest. I still don't care for those things. So we never developed a close relationship because we had nothing in common. I did, however, develop a close relationship with my grandfather. He didn't care that I didn't like sports. He taught me woodworking and spent time with me doing things I liked. He was probably a more well-rounded person too with more interests than just sports.
So my guess is that when little gay boys aren't interested in typical masculine activities, many times the father never really bonds with the boy because he's either afraid his son is gay or just doesn't know how to interract with him. And then I've heard from more feminine gay men that they felt outright hostility from their fathers when they were kids. I don't believe men turn out gay because of a poor relationship with their father. They're more likely to have a poor relationship with their father because they're gay.
And I know a few gay kids who grew up just fine and had very good relationships with macho dads. Plenty of "regular guy" dads get along just fine with their sons who don't share their same interest.
I find that the BEST AND HAPPIEST gay folks are those who simply are who they are, and don't spend their free time self analyzing this and trying to regurgitate discussions of the issue. Just live their lives, enjoy their existence and relationships and be productive members of society. I find those who spend much of their time self analyzing this tend to be more miserable and dwell in self pity.
It wouldn't make sense that it is choice. People run fromt heir entire lives. Take Larry Craig, is hiding out in bathrooms somethings he reall wants to do? Or all of these other guys that preach against it yet they are. I do think some of the "bi-curiousness" of teenage girls and the like isn't somuch a choice or not a choice as it is the "cool" thing to do.
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Parents may have much to do with it...
