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That is obviously taken into account when evaluating the teacher based on the standardized tests. The fact remains that standards are necessary or you have no idea how a given school is performing.
I don't agree that people involved with the school would really have "no idea" how things were going without the assistance of standardized testing.
I don't think we should hold them accountable completely based on tests but tests are important in knowing that certain material is being taught to the children.
There are plenty of ways to ensure that certain materials are being taught considering the school district chooses the curriculum and holds the teachers accountable as employees. We don't need standardized tests to do that.
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Also all of the methods you stated are internal methods in regards to evaluation. You need an un-biased outside metric.
You could include unbiased methods to evaluate.
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And in poor districts kids have been shown to increase the most over a school year based on testing data versus kids who already started off knowing a lot of material and who were from upper income families. All children, even poor and minority children for the most part (I'd say 85%) are very bright and they can and will learn if taught something and that something will show up on the test, especially if they take an assessment at the beginning, middle, and end of the year. You can see the children's progress with standards in that way. Even if they are still behind academically at the end of the year, the actual progress they made is charted and shown and in this way one can state, even if they aren't on grade level that the teacher was an effective teacher for that child during the school year.
If this is all true then the kids would do just as well in terms of learning with or without the test.
One thing it will do is expose the schools which are beyond hope, there will be no more excuses to keep them open.
So what do you do with those kids that are likely the reason there is little hope? Plus these tests won't "expose them". If you walk into any of those schools right now, several staff members can tell you what would help, but no one wants to listen to them. Your solution is close them and leave the kids with nowhere to go rather than improve them?
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Originally Posted by residinghere2007
I don't think we should hold them accountable completely based on tests but tests are important in knowing that certain material is being taught to the children.
Also all of the methods you stated are internal methods in regards to evaluation. You need an un-biased outside metric.
And in poor districts kids have been shown to increase the most over a school year based on testing data versus kids who already started off knowing a lot of material and who were from upper income families. All children, even poor and minority children for the most part (I'd say 85%) are very bright and they can and will learn if taught something and that something will show up on the test, especially if they take an assessment at the beginning, middle, and end of the year. You can see the children's progress with standards in that way. Even if they are still behind academically at the end of the year, the actual progress they made is charted and shown and in this way one can state, even if they aren't on grade level that the teacher was an effective teacher for that child during the school year.
You obviously have no clue how transient kids are in certain neighborhoods and also see kids as products rather than complex human beings. First of all, these tests are not proven and experts are already finding fault with them. Perhaps you should follow a teacher around and see if you really want to put their fate in the hands of a kid and/or how they are feeling the day of tests. Frankly, I'm sick of assessments. A good teacher knows within three days of school where each student is strong or weak. But now, we have teachers taking up so much class time doing assessments for further assessments and collecting the data you so desire that they hardly know the kids after a few weeks of school.
As for outside assessment, please. A friend of mine owns a human resources consulting group and I've helped her out with some basic stuff. Personally, I think she's terrible for companies. She has no involvement in day to day operations and no idea what each job entails, yet she's in charge of evaluations. Give me a break. Personally, I think public ed has so many problems because we listen to outsiders who have no idea about teaching.
By the way, "even poor and minority children are very bright"??? WTH kind of comment is that? No one ever said they weren't. What teachers have been saying for years is that poor children have some major stressors in their lives that can severely effect their school performance. But rather than do something about those stresses, people would rather just create more tests so they can get their hands on public education dollars. Shame on you for not seeing that.
So what do you do with those kids that are likely the reason there is little hope? Plus these tests won't "expose them". If you walk into any of those schools right now, several staff members can tell you what would help, but no one wants to listen to them. Your solution is close them and leave the kids with nowhere to go rather than improve them?
You obviously have no clue how transient kids are in certain neighborhoods and also see kids as products rather than complex human beings. First of all, these tests are not proven and experts are already finding fault with them. Perhaps you should follow a teacher around and see if you really want to put their fate in the hands of a kid and/or how they are feeling the day of tests. Frankly, I'm sick of assessments. A good teacher knows within three days of school where each student is strong or weak. But now, we have teachers taking up so much class time doing assessments for further assessments and collecting the data you so desire that they hardly know the kids after a few weeks of school.
As for outside assessment, please. A friend of mine owns a human resources consulting group and I've helped her out with some basic stuff. Personally, I think she's terrible for companies. She has no involvement in day to day operations and no idea what each job entails, yet she's in charge of evaluations. Give me a break. Personally, I think public ed has so many problems because we listen to outsiders who have no idea about teaching.
By the way, "even poor and minority children are very bright"??? WTH kind of comment is that? No one ever said they weren't. What teachers have been saying for years is that poor children have some major stressors in their lives that can severely effect their school performance. But rather than do something about those stresses, people would rather just create more tests so they can get their hands on public education dollars. Shame on you for not seeing that.
Poor AMMS, so far down the rabbit hole that there is no return, no hope to ever see the light of reason.
My guess is that you are a union teacher and putting yourself before the kids.
So what do you do with those kids that are likely the reason there is little hope? Plus these tests won't "expose them". If you walk into any of those schools right now, several staff members can tell you what would help, but no one wants to listen to them. Your solution is close them and leave the kids with nowhere to go rather than improve them?
You obviously have no clue how transient kids are in certain neighborhoods and also see kids as products rather than complex human beings. First of all, these tests are not proven and experts are already finding fault with them. Perhaps you should follow a teacher around and see if you really want to put their fate in the hands of a kid and/or how they are feeling the day of tests. Frankly, I'm sick of assessments. A good teacher knows within three days of school where each student is strong or weak. But now, we have teachers taking up so much class time doing assessments for further assessments and collecting the data you so desire that they hardly know the kids after a few weeks of school.
As for outside assessment, please. A friend of mine owns a human resources consulting group and I've helped her out with some basic stuff. Personally, I think she's terrible for companies. She has no involvement in day to day operations and no idea what each job entails, yet she's in charge of evaluations. Give me a break. Personally, I think public ed has so many problems because we listen to outsiders who have no idea about teaching.
By the way, "even poor and minority children are very bright"??? WTH kind of comment is that? No one ever said they weren't. What teachers have been saying for years is that poor children have some major stressors in their lives that can severely effect their school performance. But rather than do something about those stresses, people would rather just create more tests so they can get their hands on public education dollars. Shame on you for not seeing that.
Poor AMMS, so far down the rabbit hole that there is no return, no hope to ever see the light of reason.
My guess is that you are a union teacher and putting yourself before the kids.
No but good try. I'm just an involved parent of public school kids but it's not surprising you think in such general terms and recite talking points rather than think critically. I noticed that you can't offer a rebuttal. I understand you are bitter. You are a perpetual victim whose kids have no coping skills so you ran from the city rather than teach them to be their own person and function in a realistic setting. It's all the school's fault that you live in fear, think you're better than those other kids at the school and have an inferiority complex that didn't allow you to be an effective parent or advocate for your kids' educations. It won't be long before you whine about the current school (if you haven't already). Good luck...I don't think you will ever be happy.
So what do you do with those kids that are likely the reason there is little hope? Plus these tests won't "expose them". If you walk into any of those schools right now, several staff members can tell you what would help, but no one wants to listen to them. Your solution is close them and leave the kids with nowhere to go rather than improve them?
Some kids clearly do not belong in school, they belong in reform school or in special ed.
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Originally Posted by AMSS
You obviously have no clue how transient kids are in certain neighborhoods and also see kids as products rather than complex human beings. First of all, these tests are not proven and experts are already finding fault with them. Perhaps you should follow a teacher around and see if you really want to put their fate in the hands of a kid and/or how they are feeling the day of tests. Frankly, I'm sick of assessments. A good teacher knows within three days of school where each student is strong or weak. But now, we have teachers taking up so much class time doing assessments for further assessments and collecting the data you so desire that they hardly know the kids after a few weeks of school.
The teachers are not going to be fired over the at risk kid's assessments, at least i have not heard of that happening. have you? They do not need to be devoting extra time to the tests, they can just teach as they normally do, the tests will show what they are supposed to show, you aren't suppose to 'teach to them'. What is wrong with simply knowing what level the kids are at? knowledge can not hurt you.
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Originally Posted by AMSS
As for outside assessment, please. A friend of mine owns a human resources consulting group and I've helped her out with some basic stuff. Personally, I think she's terrible for companies. She has no involvement in day to day operations and no idea what each job entails, yet she's in charge of evaluations. Give me a break. Personally, I think public ed has so many problems because we listen to outsiders who have no idea about teaching.
So who should assess them, they should assess themselves? When has that ever been a good idea anywhere in society for anything? But its good enough for our kid's education?
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Originally Posted by AMSS
By the way, "even poor and minority children are very bright"??? WTH kind of comment is that? No one ever said they weren't. What teachers have been saying for years is that poor children have some major stressors in their lives that can severely effect their school performance. But rather than do something about those stresses, people would rather just create more tests so they can get their hands on public education dollars. Shame on you for not seeing that.
The teachers job is to meet the kids where they are and to teach them, tests will not get in the way of that, it will simply show where the kids are at in a larger context than their tiny classroom/school building.
No but good try. I'm just an involved parent of public school kids but it's not surprising you think in such general terms and recite talking points rather than think critically. I noticed that you can't offer a rebuttal. I understand you are bitter. You are a perpetual victim whose kids have no coping skills so you ran from the city rather than teach them to be their own person and function in a realistic setting. It's all the school's fault that you live in fear, think you're better than those other kids at the school and have an inferiority complex that didn't allow you to be an effective parent or advocate for your kids' educations. It won't be long before you whine about the current school (if you haven't already). Good luck...I don't think you will ever be happy.
Ha, not even close. I am happy with common core, you are the one who is bitter.
So what exactly is your problem with common core if your kids can just cope with the poor quality education you claim it will cause?
Some kids clearly do not belong in school, they belong in reform school or in special ed.
The teachers are not going to be fired over the at risk kid's assessments, at least i have not heard of that happening. have you? They do not need to be devoting extra time to the tests, they can just teach as they normally do, the tests will show what they are supposed to show, you aren't suppose to 'teach to them'. What is wrong with simply knowing what level the kids are at? knowledge can not hurt you.
So who should assess them, they should assess themselves? When has that ever been a good idea anywhere in society for anything? But its good enough for our kid's education?
The teachers job is to meet the kids where they are, tests will not get in the way of that, it will simply show where the kids are at in a larger context than their tiny classroom/school building.
Hello? All kids are entitled to an education and special ed kids have to take these tests. Yes, at risk kid's assessments (along with all other general ed and special ed kids) are factored in. Administrators are supposed to take ownership for their buildings and their staff. Finally - it's one test that everyone takes and if they were being used as a benchmark, that would be great. Unfortunately, they are being used to punish schools.
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