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The majority on the left are for the further restrictions with the ultimate end goal of banning guns, though they rarely admit it openly because of the political ramifications in most areas of the nation. It is like saying I support free speech, except this speach I don't like and this speech over here that might hurt someone feelings and this speech because it is too excessive and no one really needs that much free speech, but look at all this free speech I say it is ok for you to have until next year when I take some more of the approved free speech away because of some more reasonable reasonable restrictions, for the children of course.
In my home state, we are decades past "reasonable" gun laws. Everything now is just one small step towards the ultimate goal. Every year democrats in my home state propose more and more gun control. Everything from banning ammo, magazines, the majority of handguns and the majority of rifles. Of course every bill to them is reasonable.
Plus it doesn't help when the majority of anti gunners couldn't tell the difference between a rifle and a barn door. They create buzz words that don't actually mean anything because it sounds good. They pass laws to ban things without knowing how they actually work. And God forbid you expect them to know how often said item they want to ban is actually used in a crime, instead they make things from movies that do not actually exist illegal.
"Reasonable" and "common sense" are just code words for ban and confiscate, either directly or indirectly through grandfather clauses.
BS, the vast majority of the left are not for banning all guns, that is just your own bias and ignorance rearing it's ugly head. Anyone can make claims proving those claims are a far difference thing.
BS, the vast majority of the left are not for banning all guns, that is just your own bias and ignorance rearing it's ugly head. Anyone can make claims proving those claims are a far difference thing.
Casper when you look at many of these laws while they aren't "banned" they are effectively banned. To get a concealed carry permit in NYC for example you need to pay something like a $450 non refundable fee for the application that can be denied for almost reason. This is why only the rich, LE and the politically connected have concealed carry permits in that city.
You may want to Google and read "Emily gets her gun" as another example.
BS, the vast majority of the left are not for banning all guns, that is just your own bias and ignorance rearing it's ugly head. Anyone can make claims proving those claims are a far difference thing.
Leaders of the dem party have proclaimed to be for banning all guns. Dems always align themselves with anti gun groups. Like j said previously, dems in red states are usually pro gun. It is the majority of dems in blue states on the west coast and north east that have the most stringent anti gun democrats.
Even Harry Reid used to be pro gun, but the puppet masters even got him to fall in line. He used to get an A grade from the Nra, then did a 180 at the behest of obama after sandy hook. How can you test a party re guns where the VP says we don't have enough resources to inforce the current laws on the books but we should still pass more followed closely by giving self defense advice the can be prosecuted as a felony.
It can be related, it is one of the many reasons crime has gone down. Of course the one thing we know for sure is that if more people carry guns crimes does not go up.
Guns do NOT cause a reduction in crime.
No one argued that guns cause an increase in crime. This is called flipping.
Guns increase gun deaths. That's about it.
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Originally Posted by thecoalman
Casper when you look at many of these laws while they aren't "banned" they are effectively banned. To get a concealed carry permit in NYC for example you need to pay something like a $450 non refundable fee for the application that can be denied for almost reason. This is why only the rich, LE and the politically connected have concealed carry permits in that city.
Banned is not "effectively banned." How much slippery slope can we fit into a logical fallacy?
Guns are frowned upon in major cities because of extreme population density.
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Originally Posted by shooting4life
Leaders of the dem party have proclaimed to be for banning all guns. Dems always align themselves with anti gun groups. Like j said previously, dems in red states are usually pro gun. It is the majority of dems in blue states on the west coast and north east that have the most stringent anti gun democrats.
What's the term the leftists always use? "It will be the wild-west, or more guns equal more shootings".
Funny how that never happens.
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Originally Posted by shooting4life
My favorite is "shootouts at every fender bender," second is the "this isn't the Wild West" followed closely by blood in the streets.
funny how the anti gunners use the same tired arguments that never seem to pass..
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Originally Posted by greywar
Hmmm weird, so far no crazed liberals have shown up here to go off about it.
Wonder why that could be?
Maybe because many liberals are just fine with it, with a few exceptions.
Well...plus its Kansas.
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Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas
BS, the vast majority of the left are not for banning all guns, that is just your own bias and ignorance rearing it's ugly head. Anyone can make claims proving those claims are a far difference thing.
i am not worried about the average liberal, many of them are gun owners themselves, and those that arent are generally accepting of ones right to bear arms. the ones i worry about are the antigun types who constantly push for more and more gun regulations, and get truly shrill when the media blows up over a shooting incident.
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Originally Posted by eddie gein
This is what the NRA would like people to believe but I don't think it's really true. But gun people like the slippery slope argument and use it because it allows them to avoid any type of compromise on guns.
it is a slippery slope. once we start down the path of "sensible" gun regulations, the bar gets pushed further down the road, and what was once crazy legislation, now becomes "sensible". we have seen this in states across the nation, specifically new york, california, and a few other blue states with restrictive gun laws. for instance there is a law in california that states if you have a gun in your car in the passenger compartment, and you have a round of ammunition also in the passenger compartment, even if the round does not fit the gun, the gun is not only considered loaded, but it is also considered concealed even if it is out in the open where anyone can see it.
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Originally Posted by shooting4life
Except they are, most blue states are seeing anti gun laws being proposed and sometimes passed by democrats. You have to look at the state level, the dems don't have the juice at the federal level.
It is amazing how compromise only goes one way and how the same group keeps asking for compromises every year.
yes very true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life
Leaders of the dem party have proclaimed to be for banning all guns. Dems always align themselves with anti gun groups. Like j said previously, dems in red states are usually pro gun. It is the majority of dems in blue states on the west coast and north east that have the most stringent anti gun democrats.
Even Harry Reid used to be pro gun, but the puppet masters even got him to fall in line. He used to get an A grade from the Nra, then did a 180 at the behest of obama after sandy hook. How can you test a party re guns where the VP says we don't have enough resources to inforce the current laws on the books but we should still pass more followed closely by giving self defense advice the can be prosecuted as a felony.
democrats dont always align themselves with the antigun crowd, however too many of them do.
Most of the states with the highest rates of gun ownership have the lowest rates of murder by firearm. Taking a guess about 90% of the people where I live have at least one gun in the household and there is no gun crime.
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Banned is not "effectively banned." How much slippery slope can we fit into a logical fallacy?
If you make it impossible for the average person to obtain a gun then yes it is effectively banned. How manyv people are going to put $450 on the line when it can be denied for any reason? Again this is why only the rich and politically connected have concealed carry permits in NYC.
I have no problem with this law. It's not important to me- I already have my concealed-carry permit... but if they want to make concealed carry universal that's fine with me.
But just to add a little context to this discussion- Governor Brownback has been a massive failure. He gave big tax cuts to his wealthy Koch buddies, creating huge deficits in the state budget. Now he and his Teabillies are cutting funding for state retirement funds, infrastructure, and education so that he can preserve the Kochs' tax cut.
This little stunt is designed to keep the Teabillies happy while their retirements are de-funded and their kids' education is cut... and I expect it'll work.
That is the real issue in Kansas, this making CCW easier is nothing more than a distraction from the real issues in that state. Based on the OP's excitement for this, I would say it is working.
BS, the vast majority of the left are not for banning all guns, that is just your own bias and ignorance rearing it's ugly head. Anyone can make claims proving those claims are a far difference thing.
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Originally Posted by greywar
Actually no, the whole thing is blown way out of proportion. Only a tiny minority of the left wants guns actually gone. On the left you can manage to get a majority that feel some guns laws are reasonable-IE someone under the care of a psychiatrist probably shouldn't have guns for example. The right turns that into the whole "they're coming for your guns!" freak out.
The left being anti-gun is not a major plank of their platform currently. Might change in the future, but I doubt it.
To be fair a small minority on the left ARE in fact all about banning guns. Which....is foolish in my opinion.
Lots of denial in this room. Just look at the positions of top Democratic leadership. Pres. Obama is on record as supporting both a handgun ban and a ban on all semi-auto guns. VP Joe Biden claimed credit for originating the "assault weapon" ban, which was later termed the 'Feinstein amendment.' Senate Dem heavyweight Dianne Feinstein famously proclaimed that she would require "Mr and Mrs America" to "turn them [guns] all in" if she could get the votes. Nancy Pelosi said that gun control is 'inevitable,' as it has indeed proven to be in most other liberal-controlled nations. We have managed to avoid that fate thus far in the U.S. only because of the existence of two 3 letter organizations: the NRA, and the GOP.
This is what the NRA would like people to believe but I don't think it's really true. But gun people like the slippery slope argument and use it because it allows them to avoid any type of compromise on guns.
Lots of denial in this room. Just look at the positions of top Democratic leadership. Pres. Obama is on record as supporting both a handgun ban and a ban on all semi-auto guns. VP Joe Biden claimed credit for originating the "assault weapon" ban, which was later termed the 'Feinstein amendment.' Senate Dem heavyweight Dianne Feinstein famously proclaimed that she would require "Mr and Mrs America" to "turn them [guns] all in" if she could get the votes. Nancy Pelosi said that gun control is 'inevitable,' as it has indeed proven to be in most other liberal-controlled nations. We have managed to avoid that fate thus far in the U.S. only because of the existence of two 3 letter organizations: the NRA, and the GOP.
Obama supports a hand gun ban? Never heard that one before, though he seems to be doing a poor job then because in 5 years he hasn't done much for banning guns, though he has helped the gun industry increase profits by selling to scared gun nuts.
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