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if you truly did not hate Christians this would not even be an issue right now.
And not all liberals are Christians.
Liberal Christians, like Cafeteria Catholics, picks and choose what they want to believe in.
They are hypocrites.
There are many Christians who do not object to same sex marriage, so you cannot speak for all Christians. The reason there are so many Christian denominations is because there are many things they do not agree about. If you believe you have to be dunked to be baptized does that mean that denominations that sprinkle hate dunkers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713
That "law" is called the first amendment of the US Constitution, which protects the right to free exercise of religion. It has been on the books for over 200 years now.
What we actually see here is liberals and the homo-fascist bullies discriminating against Christians. Not Muslims mind you - they get a free pass - just Christians.
The Muslims will not get a pass. They will have to follow the law, too - just like the cab drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesjuke
Would it be OK to ask a Muslim Shop to make you 500 T Shirts with a cartoon picture of Muhommed on them?
If they do not sell the shirts to anyone they are not discriminating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin
Better yet ........ Will gays be forced to cater or sell to Muslims, hate groups, ect ?
If you are gay and you have a business you have to follow the same rules. You cannot discriminate against a protected class. Hate groups are not a protected class. Religion is.
If you do not sell the cake to anyone, it is not discrimination. You do not have to make it.
Status:
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Location: Pine Grove,AL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FKD19124
nah! double standard on your part.
a double standard would be a straight wedding, not hate speech.
what you are arguing is that "all cakes are equal", but i highly doubt you are that simply minded, I just think you expected us liberals to be and you were wrong.
So how about gay bakers? Can they be selective in who they service ?
Anybody can be selective in who they service. This whole thing is silly, and bound to backfire. If people didn't use their businesses to push their religious agenda, none of this would be necessary.
It's fairly obvious to me that there are not many objections to one's religious virtue being violated in many cases apart from gay marriage. If I go in and order a cake to be used in a ceremony to welcome my adulterous husband back into my marriage (for example, no I don't have an adulterous husband) - does a baker really care? Even though my husband has violated one of the 10 commandments? If I just pick the cake out of the cake case, how do they even know? If you put a cake on a shelf, what reasonable "right" do you have to track it and make sure you approve of its use? That cake belongs to me now, not you. It has left your custody and you have no further say in its future, so the participation meme is ridiculous.
They've now put themselves into a position where they may have to clarify their unwillingness to serve someone. Honestly, there was nothing stopping anyone from being too busy to make a particular cake UNTIL bakers etc started making a point of why they refused to make it.
I'm an independent contractor who picks and chooses my clients all the time. But I pick and refuse based on my availability, my desire to work with the customer's content (or not) and whether I think they're going to be a difficult client. And, whether I like them or not. I don't have to work with someone I don't like. But I cannot discriminate against them for immutable characteristics (no being an arse is not one) and those alone.
Businesses and independent contractors have always had that ability. By making a point of their disapproval of someone else's private intentions, which has nothing to do with them, they've brought this on themselves.
And possibly me, and everyone else, which is an unfortunate side effect of trying to bring your religion into my secular business life.
I don't want any religion dictating to me what I can and can't do with the goods I buy. ANY religion. And I don't want to have to justify why I don't want to work with you, which your pushing of your religious agenda may accomplish on my behalf.
There are many Christians who do not object to same sex marriage, so you cannot speak for all Christians. The reason there are so many Christian denominations is because there are many things they do not agree about. If you believe you have to be dunked to be baptized does that mean that denominations that sprinkle hate dunkers?
The Muslims will not get a pass. They will have to follow the law, too - just like the cab drivers.
If they do not sell the shirts to anyone they are not discriminating.
If you are gay and you have a business you have to follow the same rules. You cannot discriminate against a protected class. Hate groups are not a protected class. Religion is.
If you do not sell the cake to anyone, it is not discrimination. You do not have to make it.
I agree with your entire post. I believe God is a loving God, not a punishing and vindictive God. I especially agree with the bolded, NOBODY can really speak for all Christians because bible words are subject to interpretation.
That being said, If we refuse to tolerate bigotry as we perceive it, do we become as intolerant as those whom we condemn for their perceived bigotry?
Burning American flag is no longer illegal, so we know that law can be changed. Burning American flag is considered freedom of speech or freedom of express.
In my humble opinion, there are NO evidences showing that bakers refuse to sell gay and lesbian couples cookies, they just don't want to sell them wedding cake because it is against their religious belief.
Is it really discrimination against somebody based on their sexual orientation?
So people will be banned from certain business sectors because of their Christian religious beliefs. You really believe that people would stand still for this sort of thing?
Think about what you are advocating here. Talk about a fascist regime. Adolph Hitler and his crew would certainly approve of your tactics, as they used the same ones against the Jews.
If you are right, and I do not believe you are, this is where this is rapidly heading.
If a person can't obey the laws, he has to suffer the consequences. The public understands that scofflaws get punished.
I agree with your entire post. I believe God is a loving God, not a punishing and vindictive God. I especially agree with the bolded, NOBODY can really speak for all Christians because bible words are subject to interpretation.
and there is the problem.
People seem to interpret the Bible over and over and over again to suit their selfish beliefs.
Oh sure, look on tv and see which the political winds are blowing and reinterpret the Bible to suit it.
If I really wanted to, I bet I could interpret the Bible to make God really Barney the purple dinosaur. But hey some liberals would encourage that.
God is a loving God and forgives sins...that doesn't mean we can or should keep committing them over and over again.
All the Muslim bakeries have to do is go all lalalala dirkadirkamohommadjihadallahakbar and the US DOJ will back down and let them do whatever the F they want. Same as always. Muslim cab drivers already refuse customers with dogs, and Muslim cashiers refuse to handle pork products over their silly superstition. I have yet to hear of them being prosecuted by the DOJ.
I agree with your entire post. I believe God is a loving God, not a punishing and vindictive God. I especially agree with the bolded, NOBODY can really speak for all Christians because bible words are subject to interpretation.
That being said, If we refuse to tolerate bigotry as we perceive it, do we become as intolerant as those whom we condemn for their perceived bigotry?
Burning American flag is no longer illegal, so we know that law can be changed. Burning American flag is considered freedom of speech or freedom of express.
In my humble opinion, there are NO evidences showing that bakers refuse to sell gay and lesbian couples cookies, they just don't want to sell them wedding cake because it is against their religious belief.
Is it really discrimination against somebody based on their sexual orientation?
If couple "A" order a 3 tier white cake with sugar flower and are allowed to purchase the cake.
Then couple "B" orders the same cake and are denied because they are gay.
It is the sexual orientation of the people purchasing the cake that is being discriminated against.
If selling the cake was against their religious beliefs they would not sell the cake to anyone, kind of like some Muslims don't sell pork in their butcher shops because it is against their religion. They do not say this person can buy pork, but that one can not because selling him pork is against my religion.
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