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It's a cake celebrating....it's a cake. Anyone can buy one, and anyone can celebrate whatever they want with it. Or throw it on the ground. It must keep some religious bakers up at night wondering what people are doing once they take a cake or a bag of cookies home. Or a pie. An American Pie.
There's a distinction, which clearly many of you are incapable of making. Lack of critical thinking skills? Lack of cognitive skills? Any rational person recognizes the distinction:
Gays can't be discriminated against solely for being gay.
Gays can buy all the cakes, flowers, photography portraits, etc., they want from any business they choose without having to face discrimination. However, even though the law has been revised, they cannot just force any person or business to play a participatory role (provide goods and/or services) in a same-sex wedding ceremony if the business owner's religion prohibits same-sex marriage. Nothing trumps the First Amendment Constitutional right to exercise one's religion. Nothing. Not even the revised Indiana law.
Had the clause "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" not been included in the First Amendment, you'd be right. But it's there, and it does indeed give anyone including business owners the right to refuse to play a participatory role (provide goods/services) in a same-sex wedding ceremony if their religion prohibits same-sex marriage.
And here's where SCOTUS addresses the issue of exercising one's religion, substantial burden, and less-restrictive means:
Quote:
"In a 5-4 decision with a splintered dissent, the Supreme Court held that the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) cannot mandate a closely held corporation to violate the religious beliefs of its owner by providing four abortion-inducing drugs. Specifically, the court held that the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993 requires the government to accommodate such corporations just as it does not-for-profit corporations because the contraceptive mandate substantially burdens the owners’ religious beliefs and there are less-restrictive means of providing contraception (the government can pay for it directly)."
And Christian owned companies have no legal right to refuse service based on sexual orientation.
That is correct, but they DO have the First Amendment right to refuse to play a participatory role (provide goods/services) in a same-sex wedding ceremony if their religion prohibits same-sex marriage. The free exercise of one's religion is a guarantted First Amendment right.
The refusal isn't based on sexual orientation, it's based on the First Amendment Constitutional right of the free exercise of one's religion.
Yes. The Baker works with one or both members of the betrothed couple, and has to deliver the cake to the reception venue. There's an involvement in the actual nuptials. It's not simply a matter of a person walking into the bakery and buying a nondescript cake off the shelf, payng for it, and taking it out of the bakery.
First Amendment right: the freedom to exercise one's religion. Period.
The extent of the involvement is to decide, with the customer, what goes on the cake and the dropping it off at the venue. After it's paid for and belongs to the couple, mind you. That's not participating in the nuptials. It's making a cake and selling it to someone to do with what they wish. I don't hear about bakers tracking their cakes (even if custom ordered) to be assured their creations aren't going to used any another religion violating ceremonies, celebrations, or whatever apparently nefarious purpose.
Which shows their "freedom to exercise their religion" is a farce. Being gay is also against many people's religion, so if it's that important to them, why don't they screen every customer that walks through the door? If they made the cake, and it's that crucial to them what it's used for, then it would follow that they exercise their freedom of religion in all aspects. That extends to all persons, not just gay couples.
What about a first birthday cake for the kid of a couple that have been divorced and remarried, if divorce is forbidden by your religion. No compunction making that cake, and "participating" in that ritual, which by your logic condones divorce and remarriage.
Amish people come into the city to sell baked goods to anyone in Philly who desires to buy them. They seem to grasp the concept that selling goods to all, even though we aren't Amish, is a separation between their religious beliefs and commerce, and that one does not condone nor participate in their customer's cake consuming endeavors by the act of conducting their business.
What if the couple in question is straight but a different religion? Should a baker be able to say, "Sorry, lovely Hindu couple, polytheism is against my religion so I can't bake your cake because your wedding will confirm your commitment to a Hindu life together."?
That makes about as much sense (read: none) as saying one can't make a wedding cake for a gay couple because you personally do not believe in gay marriage - and I am religious!
The extent of the involvement is to decide, with the customer, what goes on the cake and the dropping it off at the venue. After it's paid for and belongs to the couple, mind you. That's not participating in the nuptials. It's making a cake and selling it to someone to do with what they wish.
Your point is invalid much in the same way that Hobby Lobby's declining to provide insurance for contraceptive services for their employees does not have to involve HL's owner's actual involvement in their employees' contraceptive practices/actions to be protected under the First Amendment.
SCOTUS has already ruled on this, and you're wrong.
Your point is invalid much in the same way that Hobby Lobby's declining to provide insurance for contraceptive services for their employees does not have to involve HL's owner's actual involvement in their employees' contraceptive practices/actions to be protected under the First Amendment.
SCOTUS has already ruled on this, and you're wrong.
They do not have to provide BC, but they can not pick and choose. They have to provide for all, or none.
No cakes for all same-sex weddings. They're not picking and choosing which same-sex weddings for which they will or will not provide cakes.
No discrimination, just the Constitutional exercising of the business owner's religion, a First Amendment right just recently upheld by SCOTUS.
It's discrimination against gay people (IMO) if they provide cakes for other occasions their religion prohibits.
If you're going to provide freedom to exercise your religion as an excuse, then use it across the board. Otherwise you are picking and choosing.
It would appear to me, its just a front for voicing your disapproval of gay marriage, and gay marriage only. Are there questionnaires provided to all potential clients so the baker makes sure they aren't violating any other religious principles they may have? Surely weddings are not the only taboo uses for their cakes, and weddings are not the only cakes they bake to order.
After all if you feel that strongly that participating (not my word) in forbidden events is a violation of your religion, you'd make sure you didn't cross that line according to any tenets.
No cakes for all same-sex weddings. They're not picking and choosing which same-sex weddings for which they will or will not provide cakes.
No discrimination, just the Constitutional exercising of the business owner's religion, a First Amendment right just recently upheld by SCOTUS.
That is based on the sexual orientation of the people purchasing the cake. That is discrimination.
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