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Old 01-17-2008, 12:05 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,778,420 times
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I didn't realize that if we ban SUVs then gasoline will only be $1.00... please, I can't stop laughing.. I can't understand such B.S. arguments..
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,168,834 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
Where's the logic in this statement?
You don't drive more because your car is smaller.
I did not say "smaller" - I said more fuel efficient.

And, if you go back a while, you might find that as fuel economy standards increased, so did the miles driven per person

Personally, I think that this fuel economy thing is nothing more than a ruse - an excuse - to limit how many and what type of vehicle the government will "allow" you to have
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,606 posts, read 77,367,674 times
Reputation: 19077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
And, if you go back a while, you might find that as fuel economy standards increased, so did the miles driven per person
I think you have the relationship incorrect though. I don't think people decided to drive more simply because their vehicles became more fuel-efficient. I plan to purchase a more fuel-efficient new car next year, and my commuting patterns won't change as a result. Over the years commuting patterns at-large have changed. In the 1940s many people lived within a very short commute to work---so close that many could walk or utilize mass transit. Nowadays people are moving further and further and further away from their workplaces, nightlife, schools, shopping, etc., requiring them to drive further and leading to this phenomenon you noticed. This is my polite way of saying that urban/exurban sprawl is driving up our nation's demand for foreign oil by creating an autocentric environment where people have to drive more now than at any other time in our nation's automobile-era history.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:30 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,778,420 times
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Wow... I didn't EVERYONE lived near their work, night club, friends, schools, shopping malls... wow... where is this magical wonderland? I have tried to look for these areas and unfortunately I didn't want to pay $1500 for a 600 sq ft apartment... no thanks, I think I stick with urban HOME...
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,168,834 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
Wow... I didn't EVERYONE lived near their work, night club, friends, schools, shopping malls... wow... where is this magical wonderland? I have tried to look for these areas and unfortunately I didn't want to pay $1500 for a 600 sq ft apartment... no thanks, I think I stick with urban HOME...
SWB wants you to live in very high density areas - no homes - all highrises. Use only mass transit - or walk

You don't need to live in anything more than 500 sq ft (your example is too big) and for goodness sake - don't even think of using A/C - you know - that "carbon footprint" thinger (which is utterly ridiculous).
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,168,834 times
Reputation: 4937
Frankly - families want to travel more. They want to explore this wonderful nation. They want to take those driving vacations.

And they are. The miles driven per person is up - that is a given.

And a lot of it is related to people getting out and driving - driving is fun. Some think it should only be utilitarian - most disagree though.

Driving can be and is a wonderful way to see, do and explore - and needs to be encouraged - there are so many things to see and do in this great land. Many of which are not accessible by any other means but the car -

Drive America
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Old 01-17-2008, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,606 posts, read 77,367,674 times
Reputation: 19077
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
Wow... I didn't EVERYONE lived near their work, night club, friends, schools, shopping malls... wow... where is this magical wonderland? I have tried to look for these areas and unfortunately I didn't want to pay $1500 for a 600 sq ft apartment... no thanks, I think I stick with urban HOME...
Huh? Are you being sarcastic? You need not live in an exorbitantly-overpriced urban center to enjoy the benefits of being within walking distance to schools, shops, parks, churches, etc. Most small or medium-sized towns in this nation still have existing infrastructure available in the form of tree-lined sidewalks that will ferry you to mixed-use zones. I myself will be moving within a brief walk of Downtown Scranton, and housing prices in my future neighborhood will be less than most suburban neighborhoods.

I'm not advocating everyone moves to TriBeCa.
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Old 01-17-2008, 06:12 PM
 
955 posts, read 2,152,826 times
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Default Fee For Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie
A government's business is to tax?

Reply:
That's right. Just like a corporation's job is to collect payment from its customers.

I agree with the reply. If I purchase a good or service from a company, I should pay for that good or service. I would support paying the government for any service that is provided to me. Let's see - In all my years, I have never used the fire department. Therefore, I have a refund comming. If I have a fire, the I will pay for the service. If an ice fisherman gets stranded on an ice flow going out to sea, the rescuee should get an invoice from the Coast Guard for services rendered. I never used a public defender - more refund money! I like this system. I just pay for what I responsibly use and not subsidize everyone else. I would purchase a special insurance policy from the private sector to prevent any catostrophic expenses, and I will be dollars ahead of where I am now. Light rail trip - great. Everyone should pay for the actual cost of the trip who use the service, not everyone else subsidizing the users trip.
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Old 01-17-2008, 06:39 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,778,420 times
Reputation: 9283
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpperPeninsulaRon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie
A government's business is to tax?

Reply:
That's right. Just like a corporation's job is to collect payment from its customers.

I agree with the reply. If I purchase a good or service from a company, I should pay for that good or service. I would support paying the government for any service that is provided to me. Let's see - In all my years, I have never used the fire department. Therefore, I have a refund comming. If I have a fire, the I will pay for the service. If an ice fisherman gets stranded on an ice flow going out to sea, the rescuee should get an invoice from the Coast Guard for services rendered. I never used a public defender - more refund money! I like this system. I just pay for what I responsibly use and not subsidize everyone else. I would purchase a special insurance policy from the private sector to prevent any catostrophic expenses, and I will be dollars ahead of where I am now. Light rail trip - great. Everyone should pay for the actual cost of the trip who use the service, not everyone else subsidizing the users trip.

Charging fees is ONE thing, taxing is another...the fact that government taxes you for services is one thing... question is, what services are you getting in return. If you want to sit idly by and say "My tax dollars are being used to fund something of which I have no idea about", I have a problem with that. The government was fully functional without income taxes, it then ballooned in weight with "creative" social services, sorry I don't buy that the business of government is to continue to tax for EXTRA services we don't need and only to create large debt. Perhaps, if you like social services and incurring debt, I suppose you could say the government taxation is necessary... income tax didn't exist at the start of government and it was not necessary then as it is now.. of course that changed a bit when we started social services which also led to our debts...
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,168,834 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post
Huh? Are you being sarcastic? You need not live in an exorbitantly-overpriced urban center to enjoy the benefits of being within walking distance to schools, shops, parks, churches, etc. Most small or medium-sized towns in this nation still have existing infrastructure available in the form of tree-lined sidewalks that will ferry you to mixed-use zones. I myself will be moving within a brief walk of Downtown Scranton, and housing prices in my future neighborhood will be less than most suburban neighborhoods.
There are many, many people who do not want to be within walking distance to schools, shops, parks etc - and that is the point some of us are making. There are millions of people who want to get away from the congestion when they go home - away from the noise - the crowds - the traffic. They don't want tree lined sidewalks with lots of people walking by -
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