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Old 01-17-2008, 02:34 PM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,694,253 times
Reputation: 572

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
Again this is the EXCEPTION to the RULE. The RULE is that companies DO want to screw the workers in every way they can possibly get away with. Not ALL of them but many if not most of them. Believe me I have worked for them and my family has even worked for more of them. My sister who resides in Wichita Kansas worked for Safelite Industries for many years in a glass factory they operated there for over 30 years! Even after 12 years of faithful service, she came to work one day along with the other employees to find the doors locked and a sign saying the plant was closed with a phone number to call to "arrange an appointment with security to clean personal effects out of your locker". This is the way American businesses operate when they don't have a UNION to advocate for the employees. UNIONS make companies act decently to the workers.
So your assertion is that if there were a union, the factory would still be open? Where's the data to back this up in any way?
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Old 01-17-2008, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,657,266 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by twojciac View Post
So your assertion is that if there were a union, the factory would still be open? Where's the data to back this up in any way?
No I am not assuming that. If they wanted to move it to North Carolina they would have anyway. But I am assuming it would have been done in such away that the employees would be given notice and a decent severance package or even the right to apply for a job in North Carolina if they so desired. American corporations suck in the way they treat people. Many of them go out of their way just to be cruel and indifferent to workers. We ought to not put up with it. People should not do business with such companies. I will never call Safelite to replace any of car glass.
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Old 01-17-2008, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,119,026 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
We ought to not put up with it. People should not do business with such companies. I will never call Safelite to replace any of car glass.
A) I'm sure Safelite is going to be devasted you will not use them

B) I'll make sure to make up for it and use them

Come on - no company has to give any employee any severance package! If they want to - Fine. But, you make it sound almost like they are obligated to - which is, of course, wrong
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Old 01-17-2008, 03:34 PM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,694,253 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
We ought to not put up with it. People should not do business with such companies. I will never call Safelite to replace any of car glass.
I agree with you 100%. We don't need regulation to address it, we should simply reward businesses which hold employees, customers, and quality with high regard.

There are a number of businesses that I won't patronize for their internal policies, the way they treat customers, and where they choose to make their products. If we all put our money where our mouths are, we could make a difference.
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Old 01-17-2008, 03:55 PM
 
9,867 posts, read 10,769,750 times
Reputation: 3103
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
GM is the biggest cause of GM's problems. Same with Ford. They do not know their markets and continue to build cars that nobody wants to buy anymore. With gas at $3 and possible going to $3.50 or $4 in the summer, familes are not going to be looking at the Suburban or Expedition to cruise America in anymore. I had a 1999 Expedition myself when gas was $1.59 and I loved it. But I would not buy one today. That is not the UAW's fault.
Not really accurate, notice that Toyotas are getting bigger and they have passed gm and ford to be #1, and they are built in non-union states! Excursions are still holding their resale value if you can find them! Why does a Harley Davidson cost twice that of a *** anese bike ?
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:39 PM
 
646 posts, read 1,783,877 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by twojciac View Post
Why? Why do you feel that you have the right to tell me how to spend my money? Do you want me to tell you what kind of food you must purchase for your househould because a healthy diet is beneficial to society? It's absurd.

My company gives us paid time off, subsidizes most of our healthcare, pays way above minimum wage, gives holidays off, provides 401k matching, a stock purchase program, a stock option program, free drinks in the breakrooms, free popcorn in the breakrooms, days off for volunteer work, 100% matching on charitable donations up to $10,000. None of this is mandated by the government... so why on earth would they do it? Because they either think it's the right thing to do, or they gain an advantage in the workplace for doing so.

If companies want to spend their money foolishly, it's none of your business how they do so. You are never forced to work for them, nor are you forced to purchase their products. The only exception is companies which do business with the government, or are directly under regulation due to a monopoly. In those cases the government *should* be able to do dictate the terms since they are in a sense the customer of the goods or service.



The importance is irrelevant... society forces businesses because they don't realize their own power in choosing not to do business with companies that they disagree with.... or they're plain lazy and wish the government to do their dirty work for them at the expense of business owners.

But wait for the day when society thinks it's important to dictate more of what you do in the privacy of your home, in how you spend your money... because it's no different than in the workplace. But maybe when you hire private contractors you care less about the qualifications of the person, and more about their gender, race, or religion... who knows...
So do you agree with Title VII or not? And I was also wondering, should employees have contracts or be employed at-will without any kind of protections? It would be helpful to know these answers in order to continue, but let me try.

There are reasons that we can't let businesses do whatever they want. It is not about what the government thinks that they should do, but what we the people want. Most people would tend to agree with Title VII that protects people from discrimination in the work place.

Sure, it's great that your company gives you free popcorn and the other stuff, that's not really wasn't really my question. What if a person isn't hired because of their race for example, should we let companies do that? No, we don't let companies do that because it's the wrong thing to do and it's foolish to presume that no employer would have a bias.

As a group, society has a much greater power than one individual on their own. In the past where none of these protections existed, such discrimination was rampant. Of course all of this is something that is discussed every day (like on here) on where the line should be drawn. You sound like you want no interference at all with businesses, while I think the current standards are at least the minimum and I do think they should be extended.

I don't buy your slippery slope argument that the government will be in my house dictating everything that I can do though.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,119,026 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockholmaren View Post
So do you agree with Title VII or not? And I was also wondering, should employees have contracts or be employed at-will without any kind of protections? It would be helpful to know these answers in order to continue, but let me try.
I'm an "at will" kinda guy - do a good job - you stay. Screw up? You are gone.

Simple

Clean

Fair
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,119,026 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockholmaren View Post
There are reasons that we can't let businesses do whatever they want. It is not about what the government thinks that they should do, but what we the people want. Most people would tend to agree with Title VII that protects people from discrimination in the work place.
You are correct - there is even a thread here that illustrates it: As long as I, as an employer spank each sex equally, it is legal!
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:48 PM
 
646 posts, read 1,783,877 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
I'm an "at will" kinda guy - do a good job - you stay. Screw up? You are gone.

Simple

Clean

Fair
Normally that is the case, but it opens it up for people getting rid of them for not liking them for any kind of reason. I think it would be reasonable to give people time to find a new job unless they've done something quite bad.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:49 PM
 
646 posts, read 1,783,877 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
You are correct - there is even a thread here that illustrates it: As long as I, as an employer spank each sex equally, it is legal!
Thanks for putting it so eloquently :-)

Too bad that would be battery...
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