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Old 01-16-2008, 01:16 AM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,697,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
But some of us do not have skills or the education needed for a better job so it's hard to find better jobs. Not every one is college material.
Yes! You're almost there... people get better paying jobs because not everyone can perform those tasks, and there's a demand for those skills.

I have nothing against unions... if people want to group together to discuss pay and benefits, that's their prerogative. I just don't want to hear them crying the blues when they price themselves out of the market due to the higher salaries or benefits they demand. Seems like quite a bit of that is happening in Detroit.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:25 AM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,123,212 times
Reputation: 55550
unions yes! corporations and government treat people fairly?
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:53 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,079,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
Multiple threads have been initiated the past few weeks concerning the high number of folks working in jobs which do not provide health care insurance, the elimination of many pension plans and the lack of adequate cost of living increases to allow employees keep pace with the cost of living.

A major change during the past 30 years has been the erosion of union influence and protection. This has been due to multiple reasons, such as the export of jobs, opening of free trade, currency changes, enhanced technology allowing remote access and automation/robotics.

My question is this, do you think that we were better off with strong unions and the influence they had in the workplace, or do you think we are better off with a less organized employer/employee relationship?

Oh that's easy...and talked to death already....the republicans/conservatives will talk about how evil and awful unions are and smarter people will discuss the benefits and accomplishments of unions.....

.....all in the UNITED States of America where the president gives the annual State of the UNION address.



Reminds me of the time I was listening to this union hater at work. She was whining about something she thought needed changing and said, "We should all get together on this, I can't do it alone, they won't listen to one person".
I replied, " You mean , like a union ?"

She never said another word
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Old 01-16-2008, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Wallace, Idaho
3,353 posts, read 6,643,358 times
Reputation: 3589
Quote:
Originally Posted by silas777 View Post
Here is a hint. which auto makers are thriving and where are they located. Michigan home of the big three has the worst economy in the country, also one of the most heavily unionized vs places like Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama & Texas right to work states where Toyota is thriving. I despise Unions and could share some very disgusting stories from these so called "Brotherhoods" for the working Man! They are part of whats wrong with America and definately not part of the solution! We will never fix the education system in this country until we are rid of the teachers union!
We won't fix education until the federal government gets its mitts out of it completely!

Beyond that, I totally agree. I've seen how bad the economy is in southeast Michigan, and it's mainly because of two things: (1) the area has no backup plan if the auto industry fails, and (2) the unions refuse to change their ways, and they're bankrupting their own companies. Unions may have served their purpose long ago, but that time has long passed.

Look at one of the hottest companies right now, Whole Foods Market. Their CEO, John Mackey, is as anti-union as they come, yet the stores pay a competitive living wage with attractive benefits, and employees tend to be happy with their situations. When a store in Wisconsin wanted to start a union, Mackey himself went to the store to find out the problem. When it was all said and done, the problems got ironed out, and calls for a union went away.

Most company executives these days are smart enough to understand that they have to treat and compensate their workers fairly. They get happier employees, and happier employees translate to a better customer experience. No unions necessary.

Unions just set up an adversarial situation between labor and management -- their starting point is the assumption that management is going to screw the workers. Guys like Mackey are showing that none of that is necessary for employees to get what they want.

Last edited by Adrian71; 01-16-2008 at 07:23 AM..
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Old 01-16-2008, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,122,537 times
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Unions are still pretty strong in areas such as education. Do you think that their influence has been altered due to the overall devaluation of unions, or do you still think they have a lot of say in teacher/employer relationships? Do you think the education process would be any different today without those unions?
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:30 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,079,571 times
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YoAdrian"""Their CEO, John Mackey, is as anti-union as they come, yet the stores pay a competitive living wage with attractive benefits, and employees tend to be happy with their situations. When a store in Wisconsin wanted to start a union, Mackey himself went to the store to find out the problem. When it was all said and done, the problems got ironed out, and calls for a union went away.

Most company executives these days are smart enough to understand that they have to treat and compensate their workers fairly. They get happier employees, and happier employees translate to a better customer experience. No unions necessary.

Unions just set up an adversarial situation between labor and management -- their starting point is the assumption that management is going to screw the workers. Guys like Mackey are showing that none of that is necessary for employees to get what they want."""""


Yup, when companies treat their employees decently unions aren't needed....and when they don't ....????????? Who ya gonna call???
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:45 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,079,571 times
Reputation: 5941
Dwight Eisenhower (a Republican):

""""
Principle says: "Free collective bargaining without government interference is the cornerstone of the American philosophy of labor-management relations."


If the government charges impatiently into every major dispute, the negotiations between parties will become a pointless preliminary farce, while everyone waits around to see what the government will do.


This Administration has faith in the rightness of the collective bargaining principle. It believes in the maturity of both labor and business leaders, and in their determination to do what is best not only for their own side but for the country as a whole.



The results: For the first time in our history a complete steel contract was negotiated and signed without direct government intervention, and the last three and a half years have witnessed one of the most remarkable periods of labor peace on record."""




If Republicans like Ike and others, don't want so much government interference....then why have more recent Republican presidents interferred so much in labor relations????
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:05 AM
 
9,873 posts, read 10,777,832 times
Reputation: 3108
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
Unions are still pretty strong in areas such as education. Do you think that their influence has been altered due to the overall devaluation of unions, or do you still think they have a lot of say in teacher/employer relationships? Do you think the education process would be any different today without those unions?
Absolutely the NEA is one of if not the most powerful lobby in washington, thay continually stand in the way of any change that doesnt include spending more money!
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:05 AM
 
3,810 posts, read 8,701,071 times
Reputation: 5537
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
But some of us do not have skills or the education needed for a better job so it's hard to find better jobs. Not every one is college material.
You don't have to be college material to have leadership skills or a talent. You don't have to try and improve yourself through college, you just need to make an effort. The union environment fosters the belief that seniority is all you need to get ahead, ie "stick around long enough and they'll give you that promotion." That's a real disservice to the hardworking men and women in this country.
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,561,453 times
Reputation: 24857
Without a union an employee of any business is at the mercy of the managment. Unions equalize the power balance between workers and managment. Managment and owners absolutely hate any interference with thier ability to exploit workers. "You are fired!," is a devastating sound to any employee and we must band together to prevent unjustified dismissal.

Unions are necessary in any economy in order to insure fair market competition. There are too many other reasons for unions to list here but exploitation by abusing power is the most important.
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