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Old 04-05-2015, 07:27 PM
 
Location: NC
11,222 posts, read 8,305,122 times
Reputation: 12469

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
The debacle known as the Iraq and Afghan War has led to nothing more than ISIS....
Two totally different things, with two totally different justifications. Can't lump them together.

I'm 100% against our invasion of Iraq. I can at least comprehend the justification for invading Afghanistan. While I'm a bit conflicted about it, you won't hear me second guessing that one. I think the given justification was clear, and verifiable (whether one agrees with it or not).
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Old 04-05-2015, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,364,082 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
The WMDs are no where to be found, still to this day. The debacle known as the Iraq and Afghan War has led to nothing more than ISIS.....the Khemer Rouge of the 2010s.
Off topic, but arguably it was more the precipitous withdrawal in 2010 that spawned ISIS rather than the 2003 invasion. There's no way to tell what might have happened had we not invaded. It is entirely possible that ISIS would have been in Iraq even earlier.

ISIS is in Syria now, and we never invaded Syria. How do you explain that?
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Old 04-05-2015, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,211 posts, read 19,525,255 times
Reputation: 21679
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Off topic, but arguably it was more the precipitous withdrawal in 2010 that spawned ISIS rather than the 2003 invasion. There's no way to tell what might have happened had we not invaded. It is entirely possible that ISIS would have been in Iraq even earlier.
Wow, everyone read what I quoted. Those are three fairly remarkable sentences, each one a rewrite of reality.
The neoconservatives certainly have some loyal followers who are busy doing the ground work of historical revision.

First, our withdrawal from Iraq is what caused ISIS.

Secondly, there is just "no way to tell" what would have happened if we didn't invade. Maybe Saddam himself would have led an ISIS brigade to attack NYC?

Thirdly, ISIS might have formed up "even earlier" had we not have invaded, and Saddam might have used that yellowcake from Niger to arm them with nuclear weapons.

Who needs reality, anyway?
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Old 04-05-2015, 10:07 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Right wingers still trying to rewrite history?
This is what is known fact.

Leading up to the first gulf war Iraq had what was most likely the largest chemical and biological weapons program of any nation that was expanding rapidly.

Iraq used chemical weapons against the Iranians and their own people.

Iraq had deployed chemical weapons during the first gulf war. They were never used, why is not so clear but either becsue they didn't have a chance or were going to use them as final measure if for example the US went for Baghdad.

During and after the first gulf war there was numerous weapons and weapons facilities destroyed.

Iraq repeatedly violated UN resolutions for inspections and had they complied we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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Old 04-05-2015, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,364,082 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
Wow, everyone read what I quoted. Those are three fairly remarkable sentences, each one a rewrite of reality.
The neoconservatives certainly have some loyal followers who are busy doing the ground work of historical revision.

First, our withdrawal from Iraq is what caused ISIS.

Secondly, there is just "no way to tell" what would have happened if we didn't invade. Maybe Saddam himself would have led an ISIS brigade to attack NYC?

Thirdly, ISIS might have formed up "even earlier" had we not have invaded, and Saddam might have used that yellowcake from Niger to arm them with nuclear weapons.

Who needs reality, anyway?
Who needs reality? Apparently not you. Not when you can stuff words into other people's mouths. Where did I say that " Saddam himself would have led an ISIS brigade to attack NYC?"

Kids, this is why you don't want to smoke the ganja. It's ok once or twice, but in the long term you end up brain-damaged and unable to reason.
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Old 04-05-2015, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,187,290 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
This is what is known fact.

Leading up to the first gulf war Iraq had what was most likely the largest chemical and biological weapons program of any nation that was expanding rapidly.

Iraq used chemical weapons against the Iranians and their own people.

Iraq had deployed chemical weapons during the first gulf war. They were never used, why is not so clear but either becsue they didn't have a chance or were going to use them as final measure if for example the US went for Baghdad.

During and after the first gulf war there was numerous weapons and weapons facilities destroyed.

Iraq repeatedly violated UN resolutions for inspections and had they complied we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Not a good enough excuse to invade a country.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:01 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,528,561 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
This is what is known fact.

Leading up to the first gulf war Iraq had what was most likely the largest chemical and biological weapons program of any nation that was expanding rapidly.

Iraq used chemical weapons against the Iranians and their own people.

Iraq had deployed chemical weapons during the first gulf war. They were never used, why is not so clear but either becsue they didn't have a chance or were going to use them as final measure if for example the US went for Baghdad.

During and after the first gulf war there was numerous weapons and weapons facilities destroyed.

Iraq repeatedly violated UN resolutions for inspections and had they complied we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Actually, it was the Bush administration that "removed" inspectors from Iraq.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,878 posts, read 26,514,597 times
Reputation: 25773
Maybe Bush read it in the papers or heard about it on TV. Seems to be the accepted means of presidents being informed of relevant events these days.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:32 PM
 
2,950 posts, read 1,638,096 times
Reputation: 3797
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post

Kids, this is why you don't want to smoke the ganja. It's ok once or twice, but in the long term you end up brain-damaged and unable to reason.
Interesting.

Did bush invade Iraq because he was brain damaged from his years of smoking "ganja"or did he do so for some other reason that he claimed and outright lied to the American public?

Since "ganja" doesn't cause brain damage I believe he lied.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,364,082 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by jburress View Post
Interesting.

Did bush invade Iraq because he was brain damaged from his years of smoking "ganja"or did he do so for some other reason that he claimed and outright lied to the American public?

Since "ganja" doesn't cause brain damage I believe he lied.
Since ganja doesn't cause brain damage you believe he lied. OK.
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