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Old 04-05-2015, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,388,672 times
Reputation: 7990

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This is the 2nd in a series.

We've all seen the bumper stickers: "Bush lied, thousands died." And the cartoons of Bush with a Pinocchio nose w/ "WMD" tattooed along its length. This meme will be regarded by historians as one of the biggest idiocies of history. There is so much evidence against it that only the self-deluded and the willfully ignorant can continue to believe.

In a review of a book by Gordon Corera, Brit historian Andrew Roberts says that the book "explodes...completely" the notion that W Bush lied about WMD.

In another piece about the book, Yale Law prof Stephen L. Carter generally agrees. I have posted this before, but the link I used is now no good. The newspaper where I first read it assigned it a headline of "Bush did not knowingly lie about WMD"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen L. Carter
"Everyone, including the spies, was convinced by the intelligence that said Saddam had the weapons,” he writes...
By everyone, Corera means everyone. As he reminds us, even Hans Blix, the chief United Nations arms inspector before the war, believed that Saddam Hussein had hidden weapons of mass destruction...
Most experts, and even Saddam's own senior officers, believed in early 2003 that Saddam still had WMD. This was by Saddam's design, and mainly intended as a stratagem to keep the Iranians in check. There is this curious recollection from a senior officer about the early days of the American invasion:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra II
Saddam told his military to "to hold the coalition for eight days and leave the rest to him," recalled Abdullah al-Mullah Huwaysh, the minister of military industrialization. The mysterious order came to some as a relief to some of Saddam's military officers. Despite Saddam's earlier revelations that Iraq was bereft of WMD, they concluded that Saddam must have a secret supply of WMD after all, and that the defense of Iraq would not depend entirely on their overmatched, ill-motivated troops.
(from Cobra II, by NYT reporter Michael Gordon, and Gen Bernard Trainor, p. 190).

Once and for all, the only 'lies about WMD' came from Saddam himself. There was no lie about WMD from Bush, Cheney, Rice, the Bilderbergers, or anyone else. None.
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Old 04-05-2015, 01:01 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,239,557 times
Reputation: 7875
Right wingers still trying to rewrite history?
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Old 04-05-2015, 01:34 AM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,610 posts, read 16,600,282 times
Reputation: 6056
Basically, you are arguing "He was wrong, thats not the same as lying", and you would be right, but he was wrong because he was lied to.
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Old 04-05-2015, 01:40 AM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,262,149 times
Reputation: 18824
Can we just move on?

The war was one big miserable failure and about the only good thing that came out of it is that Americans aren't too quick to believe their leader's case for war anymore. Not after 4500 folks died for nothing.

Plus it's caused more Americans to want to wash their hands of the Middle East completely. That's a good thing.

For that, I thank Bush.
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Old 04-05-2015, 02:30 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,299,963 times
Reputation: 17209
It's irrelevant. It matters none. Lie or the truth he got us into a war we had no business being in and screwed it up.
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Old 04-05-2015, 02:51 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,388,672 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It's irrelevant. It matters none. Lie or the truth he got us into a war we had no business being in and screwed it up.
It's very relevant. If you tell me I screwed up it's one thing. If you tell me I lied it's quite another. I'll be willing to admit to the former if there is a scintilla of evidence, but I'll never admit to the latter without absolute proof, which you are unlikely to get.

I work under a contract. My contract stipulates that lying is a firing offense. Screwing up is not.
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Old 04-05-2015, 02:55 AM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,177 posts, read 4,800,000 times
Reputation: 2587
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Right wingers still trying to rewrite history?
I never tire of sharing this article with you left wingers who spout your propaganda. I suggest you read it. Group think is such a terrible thing, and the left suffers from it as much as the right does

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Old 04-05-2015, 03:10 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,299,963 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
It's very relevant. If you tell me I screwed up it's one thing. If you tell me I lied it's quite another. I'll be willing to admit to the former if there is a scintilla of evidence, but I'll never admit to the latter without absolute proof, which you are unlikely to get.

I work under a contract. My contract stipulates that lying is a firing offense. Screwing up is not.
We can't fire Bush. I understand the desire to make it worse by saying he is a lying failure. I'm not going to argue he didn't know. To me I do not understand how he can sleep at night either way. Either way his actions reach such a high level of failure that he should be embarrassed to show his face in public again (and he rarely does).
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Old 04-05-2015, 03:16 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,239,557 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
It's very relevant. If you tell me I screwed up it's one thing. If you tell me I lied it's quite another. I'll be willing to admit to the former if there is a scintilla of evidence, but I'll never admit to the latter without absolute proof, which you are unlikely to get.

I work under a contract. My contract stipulates that lying is a firing offense. Screwing up is not.
No, they are the same thing when you are the president, either Bush acted based on a lie told to him or he lied to get others to side with him for an invasion. Either way, we invaded Iraq based on a lie. That is something you cannot change about history, Bush lied or was dumb enough to believe the lie to push on the American people. You pick which one it is, but both are bad.
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Old 04-05-2015, 03:26 AM
 
Location: Purgatory
6,404 posts, read 6,297,067 times
Reputation: 9935
Nothing we can do about it now anyways except be happy that he's out of the White House.
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