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Old 04-05-2015, 07:51 PM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,774,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
What jobs were those?
The road crews. it takes them forever to work on a small part of the road. Those guys do like their lunch breaks and getting wasted after work.
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Old 04-05-2015, 07:54 PM
 
Location: NC
11,228 posts, read 8,319,312 times
Reputation: 12501
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Yep, I agree. For those who don't agree, think of it this way.

Take a ride through government housing, it isn't pretty. Government does a POOR job at housing the poor. The government doesn't want to be a landlord so what does it do. It encourages people to invest in rental property through tax deductions, lowering taxes for real estate investors. In other words creating an environment where people want to invest. The same can be true for business and job creation. The Obama administration is anti-business and pro big government. In other words, they are discouraging investment, steering us toward government run projects.
If Obama is Anti-business (I could probably agree with that), then he is less so than either Bush. If you ignore the propaganda and look at results, it's fairly obvious. The mostly widely accepted measure of macroeconomic health in the US is the DJIA, and it is thriving under Obama. Not so much under Bush.
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Old 04-05-2015, 07:55 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,535,789 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
To answer the earlier question:

The Eisenhower Interestate System was completed by Gov't created jobs, and absolutely has benefited our economy many times over. Same can be said for 'some' of the new deal jobs. Many of the New Deal programs were critical to our national security (example: Blue Ridge Parkway). They created jobs, left us with some benefits, and filled a need. Another, although it also has many problems too (again, the multi-variable thing) is the TVA.
I'll add NASA.
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Old 04-05-2015, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,382,642 times
Reputation: 7990
Most people don't think about the nature of what a job is. A job is a trade, and economic transaction. The employee trades time, energy, and talent for money. The employer trades money for production, from which he will hopefully be able to turn a profit. This is how wealth is built.

The job is "created" when both sides believe that they will be made better off by the transaction.

Apart from core government functions such as police, courts, national defense, roads, etc. most jobs "created" by government amount to picking the pocket of A, and placing it into the pocket of B (while invariably retaining a cut for themselves in the deal). This does not really create anything, because both parties are not made better off.

Imagine a parking lot full of cars with gas tanks of varying fullness, and one car with a dry tank. Suppose you go from one car to the next, siphoning a little gas from each tank and pouring it all into the dry tank. Have you "created gas?" No, in fact you probably spilled some in the transfer process, so you have actually destroyed gas.

Some government is necessary, but most of what government does now falls into the category of taking from A and giving to B.
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Old 04-05-2015, 08:54 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,535,789 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Most people don't think about the nature of what a job is. A job is a trade, and economic transaction. The employee trades time, energy, and talent for money. The employer trades money for production, from which he will hopefully be able to turn a profit. This is how wealth is built.

The job is "created" when both sides believe that they will be made better off by the transaction.

Apart from core government functions such as police, courts, national defense, roads, etc. most jobs "created" by government amount to picking the pocket of A, and placing it into the pocket of B (while invariably retaining a cut for themselves in the deal). This does not really create anything, because both parties are not made better off.

Imagine a parking lot full of cars with gas tanks of varying fullness, and one car with a dry tank. Suppose you go from one car to the next, siphoning a little gas from each tank and pouring it all into the dry tank. Have you "created gas?" No, in fact you probably spilled some in the transfer process, so you have actually destroyed gas.

Some government is necessary, but most of what government does now falls into the category of taking from A and giving to B.
Not bad, but a couple comments. The first paragraph describes the employee/employer relationship. This isn't the nature of a job. A job is created when a producer trades with a customer.

Your parking lot scenario is fallacious. Regardless of any lack of efficiency, we do receive something in return from government workers. A better analogy would be pumping gas, not siphoning it. The private sector fills gas tanks at the rate of 20 an hour, while government fills them at 10 per hour, both for the same fee.
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Old 04-06-2015, 01:51 AM
 
4,278 posts, read 5,183,377 times
Reputation: 2375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
I'd be willing to bet that if you lived on the Gulf Coast after BP Horizon, or in NC after the Duke Coal Ash Spill, or in Alaska after Valdese, or Bopauh India (SP?) after the Union Carbide Incident, or etc etc etc you'd probably be the first in line to sue those companies.

Less taxation and regulations WOULD be good, but unfortunately, there are always a few who would bypass the rules (or common sense) for a quick buck. They ruin it for the rest of us.
I bet if you have ever driven a car you can lament the never ending "road repair" projects that go on for years. Do private companies make mistakes? Sure. But they suffer more accountability that government run projects.

What has all the government regulations bought us now? No matter what, the government keeps pumping out more regulations without any regard for the unintended consequences or intended consequences. Look at the EPA. Secret email account by it's head with the green lobby writing the regulations. To what end? We know what end. Knock down USA via regulations.
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Old 04-06-2015, 01:55 AM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,535,789 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by totsuka View Post
I bet if you have ever driven a car you can lament the never ending "road repair" projects that go on for years. Do private companies make mistakes? Sure. But they suffer more accountability that government run projects.

What has all the government regulations bought us now? No matter what, the government keeps pumping out more regulations without any regard for the unintended consequences or intended consequences. Look at the EPA. Secret email account by it's head with the green lobby writing the regulations. To what end? We know what end. Knock down USA via regulations.
I was right with ya till the "end." Just because people have different opinions and policies does not mean they are out to destroy America.
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Old 04-06-2015, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,149 posts, read 10,726,844 times
Reputation: 9816
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
I was right with ya till the "end." Just because people have different opinions and policies does not mean they are out to destroy America.
Actually, I kind of agree with totsuka on this one. It may not be their actual intention, they may think they are being helpful even, but eventually over regulation will destroy America as we know it. So, yeah, in the end it will knock down the USA.
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Old 04-06-2015, 05:49 AM
 
Location: NC
11,228 posts, read 8,319,312 times
Reputation: 12501
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Most people don't think about the nature of what a job is. A job is a trade, and economic transaction. The employee trades time, energy, and talent for money. The employer trades money for production, from which he will hopefully be able to turn a profit. This is how wealth is built.

The job is "created" when both sides believe that they will be made better off by the transaction.

Apart from core government functions such as police, courts, national defense, roads, etc. most jobs "created" by government amount to picking the pocket of A, and placing it into the pocket of B (while invariably retaining a cut for themselves in the deal). This does not really create anything, because both parties are not made better off.

Imagine a parking lot full of cars with gas tanks of varying fullness, and one car with a dry tank. Suppose you go from one car to the next, siphoning a little gas from each tank and pouring it all into the dry tank. Have you "created gas?" No, in fact you probably spilled some in the transfer process, so you have actually destroyed gas.

Some government is necessary, but most of what government does now falls into the category of taking from A and giving to B.
I'll take it a step further, and say that those gas tanks really don't need to exist if someone isn't building roads. Commerce could not exist in the 21st century if people can't get to market, and if goods can't get to market.

It's just one example, but I guess my point is that PEOPLE AND BUSINESSES of all sizes benefit from infrastructure. Some of the infrastructure can and will be built by private business, but some of it must be built by the gov't. We're already seeing more and more "Pay for use roads". It is yet another step to weed out the haves from the have-nots. Intentional or not, it will ultimately hurt our economy if (I hope not "when") a large segment of consumers can't get to market, or if a large segment of suppliers are shut out.

So yes, gov't jobs are sometimes "for the sake of jobs", but not ONLY for the sake of jobs.
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Old 04-06-2015, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,802,265 times
Reputation: 20675
Quote:
Originally Posted by totsuka View Post
I bet if you have ever driven a car you can lament the never ending "road repair" projects that go on for years. Do private companies make mistakes? Sure. But they suffer more accountability that government run projects.
Most roads are public.

Beyond filling seasonal potholes, road repair/ repaving work, including project management, is typically outsourced to the private sector.
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