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Old 01-17-2008, 09:43 AM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,701,449 times
Reputation: 572

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Rural America - no public transportation - your nearest neighbor is 10 miles away -

Believe it or not - there are MANY areas like this
Absolutely... but in the most basic sense, you can farm your own land and provide your own food. You don't *need* electricity if you have a spring or well or stream on your property. How did people in 1800 do it?

Now if we change our definition from a basic need to live, you're right... you need a car in many areas to live a *normal* life.

 
Old 01-17-2008, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,168,834 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by twojciac View Post
Absolutely... but in the most basic sense, you can farm your own land and provide your own food. You don't *need* electricity if you have a spring or well or stream on your property. How did people in 1800 do it?

Now if we change our definition from a basic need to live, you're right... you need a car in many areas to live a *normal* life.
Valid points. But, remember, we are in the 21st century - not the 19th century. People "NEED" things like medical care. They "NEED" education for their children. They "NEED" to take products to market (to make a living). And so on.

All of this REQUIRES the ability to "MOVE" - and, without transportation in the 21st century, it is unlikely that most would survive
 
Old 01-17-2008, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,694,851 times
Reputation: 36642
America in the 21st Century is not about 'survival'. It is about 'quality of life', since survival ceased to be a variable quite a long time ago. It is pointless to talk about what is needed for survival, since even the nomads in the great deserts of the worls survive.

People are social animals, and they have formed themselves into nations for social purposes. The quality of life is better where people collectively create better living conditions and (this is important) take steps to ensure that each individual is better off within the society than outside it. This can only happen if the enrichment of the society is shared to some degree among its component parts. So, the definition of 'anti-social' becomes personal greed---any member of the society who is unwilling to share some of what he gets from society. He is as destructive to the fabric as a deformed idiot child who is unable to make a contribution at all.

So, within the context of the ideal human social relationship, Greed is a defect which threatens the well-being of the entire society.
 
Old 01-17-2008, 10:02 AM
 
Location: C.R. K-T
6,202 posts, read 11,403,491 times
Reputation: 3807
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
People are social animals, and they have formed themselves into nations for social purposes.
Actually it's the community. That's why we have cities and thus city-data.com.
 
Old 01-17-2008, 10:12 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,918,160 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by roanoker 4 View Post
Someone has to be rich and someone has to be poor. Its the American way.
I was under the impression that the "American way" was that you are free to choose your success in life. That is, there is no limitations to what you can achieve other than the effort you put in to achieve it.

Problem with that ideal is that people who don't want to put in the effort dislike it as their obtainable position in life is then fully their responsibility. Makes it hard to give excuses when ultimately it is all on their hands.

That was the American Way, maybe these days the American was is to hold your hand out and expect to be given everything based on how loud and consistent you scream. I remember seeing this quite often in stores. It usually pertained to a child pestering their mother over and over again while throwing a tantrum to get what they wanted. That is seeming more and more like the "American Way" these days.
 
Old 01-17-2008, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,168,834 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
So, within the context of the ideal human social relationship, Greed is a defect which threatens the well-being of the entire society.
Again though - I must ask - define the word "Greed"?

Another definition to consider - define when someone is "RICH"?

I am going to suggest that both words are SUBJECTIVE - that it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to come up with an OBJECTIVE definition that would be universally accepted by society.
 
Old 01-17-2008, 10:21 AM
 
2,356 posts, read 3,457,166 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Rural America - no public transportation - your nearest neighbor is 10 miles away -
What about boats, bicycles, or horses?

Is walking 10 miles is going to kill you?
 
Old 01-17-2008, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Bridgetown, Ohio
526 posts, read 1,477,300 times
Reputation: 145
Default Be Aware of Unintended Consequences

[quote=dunkel25;2535479]What do they invest in? Businesses? Stocks? This is bad because it is not a direct influence on the economy?/quote]

One of the ways high tax-rate people have to mitigate high taxation on ordinary income is by investing in tax free municipal bonds -- "tax loop holes" to some.
What is the purpose of these bonds? Constructing roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, etc. So you guys want to eliminate "loop holes"? How are these infrasturcture necessities going to be financed? Maybe they just won't; we will just have to do without.
 
Old 01-17-2008, 10:23 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,197,929 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Greatday
Quote:
Maybe where you live this is true. But, in MANY areas of the United States, it DEFINITLY is not true.
My point is that if humanity (not just Americans) needed a car for their survival, we'd be extinct already.

Quote:
Valid points. But, remember, we are in the 21st century - not the 19th century. People "NEED" things like medical care. They "NEED" education for their children. They "NEED" to take products to market (to make a living). And so on.

All of this REQUIRES the ability to "MOVE" - and, without transportation in the 21st century, it is unlikely that most would survive
Humanity can transport itself with their own two feet.
I'm just of the opinion that modern humanity has become so dependant to modern technology that they’ve become addicted to the luxury modern technology often brings. The thing is that modern humanity, like junkies, have become convinced that they can't survive without their technology (= a heroine-fix). A heroine-junkie is able to survive without a shot of heroine, but he just chooses not to.
Probably because giving in to your addiction has always been easier than beating it.
 
Old 01-17-2008, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,168,834 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous View Post
What about boats, bicycles, or horses?

Is walking 10 miles is going to kill you?
Sorry - this is the 21st century

And walking a 2000 lb load of goods does not work.
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