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I support gay marriage. I think the bakers look foolish and if it was my baker id find a new one but I do not think its the governments place to decide who a person must do business with. No more than I think they should be deciding who you can marry.
I disagree. I believe in equality for all. If you don't want to serve everyone, don't open shop to the public. We've already been through this with Jim Crow. Discrimination is ugly, if not evil. If government doesn't step in to protect minorities, who will? The market? Actually, the market seems to be doing a good job today, but without government protection, enclaves of discrimination would surely pop up around the country. Small towns, neighborhoods, maybe even some cities could possibly exclude whoever they wanted to exclude. Nope, not my idea of a free society.
I disagree. I believe in equality for all. If you don't want to serve everyone, don't open shop to the public. We've already been through this with Jim Crow. Discrimination is ugly, if not evil. If government doesn't step in to protect minorities, who will? The market? Actually, the market seems to be doing a good job today, but without government protection, enclaves of discrimination would surely pop up around the country. Small towns, neighborhoods, maybe even some cities could possibly exclude whoever they wanted to exclude. Nope, not my idea of a free society.
"Actually the market seems to be doing a good job today".
"Actually the market seems to be doing a good job today".
Thanks.
Hey, maybe we're on to something. I've said more than once that perhaps those who wish to let the market decide these issues are correct. Either way, what we've seen from corporate America does not necessarily have an effect in all places. There are many small rural towns in Nevada that rely on agriculture and mining. Small, insignificant, one horse towns. They don't care what Starbucks or Microsoft do. As long as the alfalfa makes it to market, the people are happy. If the owner of the only hotel/bar/restaurant in town decided he wasn't going to serve gays (or blacks, for that matter), someone passing through may need to sleep in his vehicle, and hope the gas station owner serves him so he doesn't get stuck. I prefer protection by law, but I certainly support the market's voice.
You know what I'm talking about, and that is the only reason these religious freedom laws are being discussed in the first place.
So where's a new SCOTUS case that challenges a business owner's First Amendment right in regards to religious objection? SCOTUS has already ruled on HL, and upheld a closely held business owner's First Amendment right to refuse to provide services/goods based on a valid religious objection, and when less-restrictive means of accessing such goods/services are available.
it goes further than that, it is also a means to destroy marriage completely.
And yet WHO is calling to get rid of legal civil marriage? It's generally those who are teed off that gays are allowed to get married, not gays.
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Originally Posted by rbohm
it means to accept the lifestyle as one that is normal.
No one cares what you accept. You are simply not that important in other peoples lives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm
the only thing these business owners are doing is not serving gay weddings. otherwise these business owners serve gays for everything else. take for instance a flower shop that was in the news a little while back. the owners had sold flowers to a gay couple for nine years. even to the point of making friends with this couple. when gay marriage became legal in their state, the gay couple asked if the flower shop owner would supply flower for the wedding. the flower shop owner respectfully declined on religious grounds, and consequently got sued.
"the only thing these business owners are doing is not allowing some to sit at the lunch counter. Otherwise they serve them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm
its not about discrimination against all gays, its about business owners that have deeply held beliefs that gay marriage is wrong, and goes against what the owners believe. on the other side its about the gays wanting to force people to accept their lifestyle as completely normal.
Why can't those business owners do like Jews and Muslims that have "deeply held beliefs" about a product and not offer it for sale in their shops?
So where's a new SCOTUS case that challenges a business owner's First Amendment right in regards to religious objection? SCOTUS has already ruled on HL, and upheld a closely held business owner's First Amendment right to refuse to provide services/goods based on a valid religious objection, and when less-restrictive means of accessing such goods/services are available.
Snap out of it! The HL case was about employer covered insurance, not selling goods to the public.
Perhaps, but you deleted the rest of my post. For those reasons that you excluded, I'm not convinced.
If you supported preserving the First Amendment rights of all, as most people do, you would.
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