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Old 04-16-2015, 11:04 AM
 
428 posts, read 343,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
I have had to do some hiring over the years and never, ever had a problem finding programmers.

We have a population of 300 million. You can find anyone you need right here.
It's a good point. As a side note, *every* larger scale outsourcing or H1B-oriented project I've seen has been fraught with disaster.

Once a company seriously goes down either of those paths, they seem to never really recover. I wonder why/what the tipping point is for going overseas for talent. Perhaps hiring an Indian VP with ties to a large consultancy firm is enough.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:06 AM
 
13,631 posts, read 20,724,854 times
Reputation: 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Are you talking about telecommuters or actual people?
Human Beings.

We have them here. Lots. Really.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:17 AM
 
2,401 posts, read 3,249,575 times
Reputation: 1837
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post

Also, having worked with tons of H1Bs (mostly from India), I can tell you that they are not very smart. At all. They usually know little to nothing about world history, culture, geography, government, economics, philosophy, psychology, composition and rhetoric, fine art/music, etc. This includes the history/government/etc. OF THEIR OWN COUNTRY. It's mind-boggling how ignorant some of them are. They. Know. Nothing. They're here being paid ridiculous sums of money to do jobs that Americans are fully capable of doing, and they are as helpless and naive as any 8 year-old. They will call a plumber to unclog a toilet without attempting to use a plunger first. They will call an electrician to change a light bulb. They arrive not knowing how to do laundry, how to put gas in a car, how to use a checking account, how to use an ATM, how to grocery shop, etc. It's appalling. Obviously whatever firms are sending them here do not give them even a basic crash-course in how to live/work in the United States.

I've had to explain to one of them...who just bought a half-million dollar house...how the purchase will affect their credit score, their tax burden, etc. They didn't know about property taxes. I'm guessing their mortgage broker just assumed they knew??

I've met H1Bs who didn't know anything about the history of their country prior to the 1950s. I've met some who had never heard of the Holocaust. Literally. One didn't know that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor in 1941. Some had never heard of the Roman Empire. I'm not kidding. One guy thought you could get AIDS from shaking hands. Another became very frightened of a coworker when he heard he was Jewish. I wish I was kidding.

I'm not.

Obviously, their education system is letting them down. When you sacrifice a well-rounded education in favor of a vocational system with a laser-like focus on one or two narrow subject areas, you basically produce...well...idiots. It's not their fault. But it is stunning.
Lol. You should tell all these to those that advocate a STEM-or-nothing education.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:22 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,189,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmFest View Post
Lol. You should tell all these to those that advocate a STEM-or-nothing education.
I do. I should add that I've met equally ignorant people from other countries (European and Asian countries mainly) where the emphasis is on a narrow range of subjects at the secondary/tertiary level.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:27 AM
 
9,240 posts, read 9,723,376 times
Reputation: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post

I've met H1Bs who didn't know anything about the history of their country prior to the 1950s. I've met some who had never heard of the Holocaust. Literally. One didn't know that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor in 1941. Some had never heard of the Roman Empire. I'm not kidding. One guy thought you could get AIDS from shaking hands. Another became very frightened of a coworker when he heard he was Jewish. I wish I was kidding.
It's probably a matter of language barrier. For example, I am sure most if not all Koreans and Chinese know about the Holocaust, but 90% of them do not know the English term. When you ask them about it, they are dumbfounded.

On the other hand, how many Americans know the history of India, the dynasties of China, or the Meiji Restoration of Japan? Schools in different parts of the world have different focuses.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:29 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,189,983 times
Reputation: 28548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
It's probably a matter of language barrier. For example, I am sure most if not all Koreans and Chinese know about the Holocaust, but 90% of them do not know the English term. When you ask them about it, they are dumbfounded.

On the other hand, how many Americans know the history of India, the dynasties of China, or the Meiji Restoration of Japan? Schools in different parts of the world have different focus.
Nope, it wasn't that they didn't know the English word for the Holocaust. They literally did not know about it.

I am no expert in world history, but we did study all of those events in my high school world history class.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:31 AM
 
9,240 posts, read 9,723,376 times
Reputation: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Nope, it wasn't that they didn't know the English word for the Holocaust. They literally did not know about it.

I am no expert in world history, but we did study all of those events in my high school world history class.
Students in Asia study those events too--- but there are always bad students (in those subjects). I'm pretty sure some Americans are pretty naive with respect to history too.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:33 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,189,983 times
Reputation: 28548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Students in Asia study those events too--- but there are always bad students (in those subjects). I'm pretty sure some Americans are pretty naive with respect to history too.
You're missing the point.

The college-educated Americans whose jobs are being handed to these people are usually NOT "naive with respect to history."

Not only can they do the jobs the H1Bs are being brought here to do, but they're smarter than those H1Bs. All around.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:37 AM
 
10,029 posts, read 10,875,847 times
Reputation: 5946
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmFest View Post
Rather, she is stuck on "experience". Her argument is that if people were already working, then they are experienced. While this is technically true, experience alone doesn't make one qualified or competent. Some of the most incompetent people I've worked with have been in their positions for 10+ years and haven't been fired just because they are so good at covering their mistakes by blaming them on their coworkers. She cannot get over the idea that there are American employees that deserve to be fired and unemployed. She would rather see incompetent Americans get hired and waste the company's resources than competent foreign workers that are competent and productive get hired.
Then what about recent grads? I know plenty with degrees who are unemployed.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:42 AM
 
9,240 posts, read 9,723,376 times
Reputation: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
You're missing the point.

The college-educated Americans whose jobs are being handed to these people are usually NOT "naive with respect to history."

Not only can they do the jobs the H1Bs are being brought here to do, but they're smarter than those H1Bs. All around.
As I mentioned, some of them may not be familiar with the Holocaust, compared to Americans (though I doubt it), but they may know better about the history of the Vedic Civilization, or the Achaemenid Empire.
America has a lot of Jews and the media like to talk about it. But in Iran or India, it is totally different. It's just like only a few Americans know about the Rape of Nanking, but everyone in East Asia heard of it.

Or at least they speak a second language relatively fluently. How many Americans can do that?
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