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I can't take seriously anybody that uses absolute, blanket statements like this.
Absolute statements like "They are some of the smartest people I know and should be allowed to stay and become US citizens." for example?
Sorry AmFest, but no we do not actually need them. In fact as a way to depress wages for professionals it works great...which leads to less Americans getting in to those industries....which leads to more demand for H1-B's, which....I'm sure you see the pattern.
And the propaganda about them being paid a competitive wage is complete nonsense. The workaround is to either lie about the wage (which happens), or more commonly replace a Software Engineer with a software business analyst....
That is because everyone looks down at ditch diggers and day laborers besides themselves and maybe their families. That and the buzzword for workers is knowledge workers who add value. The unskilled workers on the larger part don't add value. Because of these two things, hardly anyone cares.
I disagree to a point. The real issue I see is that the right ing ideologues, the free market capitalism weenies, the Milton Friedman-esque debaters have won the argument. At least for the moment. Thus we are gutting our manufacturing and support infrastructure. We continue to lose or unskilled, semi skilled, blue collar and white collar jobs, the total of which provided paths to prosperity up and down our economy.
There are plenty of newspaper and magazine articles about the H1B issue to be found by googling, including LA Times and Computerworld.
One of the things that is happening is that American workers are losing their jobs, while the H1B replacements work out of call centers in India to use remote access tools and technology to fulfill the functions of those they have replace.
But that's ok because the executive and senior managers all get bigger bonuses and in theory the shareholders get higher dividends, at least according to the true believers I named earlier.
Yet just about all of us see a continued decline in the America we one grew up in - an America were there was a shared future for all of us, not just increasing bifurcation of income and standard of living so that some do exceedingly well while most are just shoved off to the side, thrown a few crumbs, and otherwise ignored.
PS if Americans cant be trained to do a lot of the high tech manufacturing that is now in China, how is it that people fresh off the farm in China can least to put the parts into a machine, press the green button, and viola! Out comes an Iphone 6 extreme.
Sorry AmFest, but no we do not actually need them. In fact as a way to depress wages for professionals it works great...which leads to less Americans getting in to those industries....which leads to more demand for H1-B's, which....I'm sure you see the pattern.
I'm not of the opinion that there aren't enough Americans in CS because of lower wage. How many people do you know did not get into this kind of fields because they don't pay enough?
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
And the propaganda about them being paid a competitive wage is complete nonsense. The workaround is to either lie about the wage (which happens), or more commonly replace a Software Engineer with a software business analyst....
You should get your facts straight. Policy is not propaganda. And for the record, I am 100% against abusing the system, one example of which is what you cited. That's why I'm happy that investigation of the abuse is finally happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
H1-Bs are not doing our country any favors.
Remember the guy named Elon Musk? Guess what visa he was on when he started working here after grad school? If you look at the startup scenes in San Francisco, Palo Alto, and Seattle, you'll see the future of America depends a lot on those that are currently on H-1B. See for yourself whether they are competent. In fact, ask anyone at Google, Facebook, or Microsoft if they think the foreign workers there are competent. Don't just sit behind the screen, listen to the sob stories, and make premature conclusions.
Remember the guy named Elon Musk? Guess what visa he was on when he started working here after grad school? If you look at the startup scenes in San Francisco, Palo Alto, and Seattle, you'll see the future of America depends a lot on those that are currently on H-1B. See for yourself whether they are competent. In fact, ask anyone at Google, Facebook, or Microsoft if they think the foreign workers there are competent. Don't just sit behind the screen, listen to the sob stories, and make premature conclusions.
Elon Musk should have been on the O visa, no?
We do NOT need any H1-Bs. Period. Not when we have thousands of unemployed American citizen STEM/IT workers. It's absolutely galling to see H1-Bs hold down jobs while experienced Americans go without.
How about asking people who don't work for Gates or Zuckerberg what their experiences with H1-Bs are? You will find that most will tell you that H1-Bs range from mediocre to downright incompetent. How can you support the H1-B visa program when it is riddled with fraud and corruption plus it hurts Americans?
If every single American in the STEM/IT fields was not only employed but fielding multiple offers because employers couldn't fill jobs, then we can discuss using H1-Bs. However, this is not what is happening---and you know it, too.
Not only that, but Indian H1-Bs who manage to get green cards and are in a position to hire blatantly discriminate against non-Indians. My husband had that happen to him, as did his friend who is a naturalized US citizen from Nigeria.
Then, you have to ask yourself---is it ever good to poach people from third world countries when they are needed far, far more in their own countries than they ever will be here?
Absolute statements like "They are some of the smartest people I know and should be allowed to stay and become US citizens." for example?
Sorry AmFest, but no we do not actually need them. In fact as a way to depress wages for professionals it works great...which leads to less Americans getting in to those industries....which leads to more demand for H1-B's, which....I'm sure you see the pattern.
And the propaganda about them being paid a competitive wage is complete nonsense. The workaround is to either lie about the wage (which happens), or more commonly replace a Software Engineer with a software business analyst....
No. When he graduated from the PhD program he wasn't yet a person with extraordinary abilities. It takes time to develop those, you know. O visas are for people with already established achievements. You would have kicked him out, wouldn't you?
No. When he graduated from the PhD program he wasn't yet a person with extraordinary abilities. It takes time to develop those, you know. O visas are for people with already established achievements. You would have kicked him out, wouldn't you?
Yup. He came here to get an education and he got it. If somewhere along the line, he proved himself to be extraordinary, he would have gotten his O visa. He's South African born and Canadian-American. You mean to tell me that he couldn't have achieved that same success in Canada? Seriously?
You, on the other hand, want to give out H1-Bs as if they were candy.
Those who are defending this program either never dealt with it or is guilty of hiring them. These rest of us have probably seen it, even lost a job because of it. It's in all fields, including many where many Americans are unemployed. Years ago I applied for a marketing director position, only to see it go to a visa worker. Meanwhile I know many marketing professionals who are unemployed. BTW the guy who got the job just graduated college, how could he be better than someone like me with years of experience? Another time I lost a public relations position to someone who came here from Brazil who could barely speak English. No idea if she was a visa worker but still, they should have hired an American over her.
Very positive news. Listen to the congressional hearing March 19 (or 17) 2015, that hearing was damning to the H1b program.
They had a great panel of experts, besides the immigration attorney, all on panel agreed that the h1b visa is abused, and used to replace Americans with , yes, cheaper foreign labor.
When Outsourcing companies do stuff like this.. makes me sick. From the Civil case Layla Bolton vs InfoSys
" federal demographic data. Infosys was required to report the demographic make-up of any location at which it employs at least 50 people, according to the lawsuit. In 2012, there were 59 such Infosys sites across the U.S. that met that threshold. The lawsuit said that for more one third of the sites – 21 — Infosys reported that 100% of the employees are Asian. For 53 of the 59 sites, at least 94.5% of the employees were Asian. The lowest percentage of Asian employees at any site was 73.8%.”
If that isn't discrimination, i don't know what is. Totally Unamerican.. Go Layla Go
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