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Old 04-24-2015, 08:31 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,659,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O.C. Ogilvy View Post
Did Six Million Really De?
actually no, considering that we dont know how many jews were executed in russian camps, the estimated number os closer to 12 million. also remember that it wasnt just jews that the nazis executed, but also gypsies, gays, and other "undesirables". so the nazis actually eliminated more than 12 million themselves.

 
Old 04-24-2015, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,863 posts, read 8,152,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
I don't know about "de" but I do believe 6 million did die in the camps from disease,starvation, and direct extermination. Toward the end of the Third Reich, record keeping broke down thus the hundreds of thousands that died were never counted by the normally precise Germans.

Sadly, your statement is provably incorrect. In fact, not even mainstream historians think 6 million died "in the camps". The six million number is the total number claimed to have been killed by "all causes" and in "all places". As David Cole jokingly said, "Even the Jews killed in the allied bombings are included in this six million statistic".


In fact, the six million statistic primarily comes from a statement by a German official where he said that "four million Jews had been killed in the camps and two million outside the camps."


I do want to add. David Cole is a Jew. Here he is on the Montel Williams show from the early 1990's. It is a good primer into what people call "revisionism". And let me add one more point, revisionism isn't people who are just making up new facts on the spot. It is about revising what had been believed by the introduction of new evidence.

For a point of reference, for decades it was believed that four million people had been killed at Auschwitz. That number has been reduced to one million. That is "revisionism". Which really just means "trying to find the truth".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx9G4zmpKv0


As for your statement that "toward the end of the Third Reich, record keeping broke down". I wouldn't say that the Third Reich really began "breaking down" until the end of 1944. But even mainstream historians don't believe that there was a policy of killing absolutely anyone from August or September of 1944 through the end of the war.

David Cole argues that there was never an "extermination plan" like we imagine it(IE anything ordered by Hitler). That the mass killings were the largely unorganized outcome of the German advances to the East. Whereby tens of millions of communists and Jews had come under their control.

While most people like to imagine these people as being "completely defenseless". The truth was that in every German-occupied territory there were groups of what you might call "freedom fighters". Though the term at the time was the "Partisans".

Partisan (military) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These people were involved in sabotage, espionage, and even direct military conflict. In America, we were so worried about the Japanese Americans being used in espionage and sabotage that we put them all in "internment camps"(and America was thousands of miles away from any war-zone, imagine if the war was being fought right next door, in a contiguous land-mass).

Think of Nazi-held Belarus or Ukraine as being similar to Iraq and Afghanistan. Or even Vietnam. And think of many of the Jews in every Nazi-held country as being effectively an "active enemy of the state"(IE an insurgent).

One of the things that irritated David Cole about the holocaust story, was the depiction of Jews in WWII as being completely helpless, or even cowards. Who never even attempted to defend themselves, and were merely massacred by the evil Nazis.

This simply isn't the actual truth. Jews fought against the Nazis in occupied areas throughout the war.

Ghetto uprising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course, this "Jewish and communist resistance" in occupied territories, is probably what ultimately led to most of the "mass murder" of Jews and communists in those areas. The Jews were originally held in ghettos because there simply wasn't enough room in the camps. But as the Jews in the ghettos were effectively "at war" with the Germans. The German military would often raid these ghettos and "collectively punish" their inhabitants.

Which makes sense why you hear stories from people who lived in the ghettos about how the German military would come in and just shoot large numbers of people. But they never killed all of them, even though they could have. Why? Pretty simple, there wasn't an extermination plan, it was just stupid angry Germans who were collectively punishing people they didn't trust and didn't like. Probably because someone, or some group in the ghetto had carried out an attack on the German military.

I mean, I'm not saying it is right, but is it surprising that a hundred Jews, or even a thousand Jews were killed after a "ghetto uprising", which killed even a relatively small number of German soldiers? Isn't that how we handled the Native-Americans? Isn't that possibly even our current policy of "collateral damage"?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLJnHGAfqdc

Last edited by Redshadowz; 04-24-2015 at 09:05 AM..
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