Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Really? this is your argument back?
Just give it up. The rest of the world does this cheaper then we do, and with better results in general.
You can cherry pick some specialty, but the WHO data is damning. Refusing to recognize this is refusing to recognize reality.
|
uhm..not quite
let's look at how the WHO rates the countries:
1. infant mortality...which is NOT measured the same from country to country
...a) has ZERO to nill due with health care..has to due with teen pregos, and LIFE STYLES
...b) the US would have """""one of the lowest rates of age at first pregnancy""""""...especially since it has the HIGHEST RATE of TEEN prego's too...and New Mexico is has the highest rate of all 50 states
btw teen prego's...high risk, with usually lower baby weight.... according to webMD...high risk prego's are defined as..."""You are younger than 17 or older than 35.""""
....c) to rank a group on infant mortality, when many places dont even count it the same was is cherrypicking....ie many countries wont count a birth (infant death) if the unless the baby made it past 24 hour, so a 'bluebirth' doesnt count..yet we DO county it
a girl in my sons school just had a kid(at 14)..the funniest (well maybe not funny) is that as she says, "now I can get welfare just like my mom"
2. life expectancy
Quote:
WHO's lifespan (life expectancy) has been debunked a dozen times
the usa ranked 36. a LE of 78.8
the highest is japan at 82.6
the difference between us and france ....1.6 year
the difference between us and canada.....1.6 year
the difference between us and germany...a HALF a year
the differnce between us and the untied kingdom...4 months
life expectance is more about genetics and life style, than health care
we have a longer life expectancy than them as a whole
the number one place for life expectancy of asian women....USA
not to mention that life expectancy is more about genetics and LIFE STYLES (ie hamhocks, fried twinkies, and fried chicken, mcdonalds, fatbacks certainly dont help)
most other places..they walk/bike
most other places dont have 4 tv's to a house
posting about life expectancy..means actually very little to medicine
difference between us and the highest is....3.3 years ...is that realivily low (79yrs-82yrs)
and the reason...
is not health care
its....
LIFE STYLE (especially EATING, and EXERCISE), and democraphics (ethnics)
demographics, to include eating habits, GENES, TEEN PREGNANCIES, traffic, cancer, etc..ALL effect those numbers
yes I said traffic accidents....you think that the 2x amount of traffic accidents (of the world) is NOT going to lower the top level???
btw
asians have the HIGHEST life span...and FEMALE ASIAN AMERICANS have the highest life expectancy IN THE WORLD
its demographics
if you compared country "A" to country "B"...and said "A" has an average age of 38..and "B" has an average age of 51...which country do you think would be more PRODUCTIVE and HEALTHY
its the demographics
its like the life expectancy list
the USa has an AVERAGE life expectacny of 78.9 (number 30 something on the list)
but if you break it down further
in the USA, the asian american female has a life expectancy of 86(the HIGHEST in the WORLD)(((higher than the 82 in the actual country of japan)))
..whites are around 83...hispanics around 76...and blacks have a LOW LIFE expectacy around 66m/68f....giving us the AVERAGE of 78.9.....if you took the (12-15% population) of blacks of that list..we would have one of the top three life expectancies in the world....
demographic plays BIG ROLES
funny japan is higher than any of the european countries...in life expectancy..and the 3rd lowest in infant mortality....connected...hmmmmm....certainly genetic
we also have the HIGHEST teen pregnancy ...which leads to low baby weight, and high infant mortality.....and the hightest DEMOGRAPHIC with teen pregancies...the african americans (especially southern AA)
life expectancy is not about health care.. but about healthy living.....too bad the liberhaddists dont understand that
|
and the big lie of the WHO rating....does a country HAVE SINGLEPAYER....hmmm so the ""rating""" is based on their OPINION that having a singlepayer is better
Quote:
|
The rest of the world does this cheaper then we do, and with better results in general
|
not really
we spend massively, because we atleast address the problems
we have millions that have diabetes...other country dont diagnose as much as we do
we have millions that have monocular degeneration (blindness) other countries dont fully treat as we do
its the same with most thing...look at the numbers we (the usa) has a better 'treatment' record (life after diagnos) than all other countries
Quote:
Fact No. 1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.[1] Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.
Fact No. 2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.[2] Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.
Fact No. 3: Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.[3] Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit are taking statins, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons and 17 percent of Italians receive them.
Fact No. 4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.[4] Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon cancer:
Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).
Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared to less than 90 percent of Canadians.
More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent).
Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).
Fact No. 5: Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report "excellent" health compared to Canadian seniors (11.7 percent versus 5.8 percent). Conversely, white Canadian young adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower income Americans to describe their health as "fair or poor."
Fact No. 6: Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the U.K. Canadian and British patients wait about twice as long - sometimes more than a year - to see a specialist, to have elective surgery like hip replacements or to get radiation treatment for cancer.[6] All told, 827,429 people are waiting for some type of procedure in Canada.[7] In England, nearly 1.8 million people are waiting for a hospital admission or outpatient treatment.[8]
Fact No. 7: People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed. More than 70 percent of German, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand and British adults say their health system needs either "fundamental change" or "complete rebuilding."[9]
Fact No. 8: Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians. When asked about their own health care instead of the "health care system," more than half of Americans (51.3 percent) are very satisfied with their health care services, compared to only 41.5 percent of Canadians; a lower proportion of Americans are dissatisfied (6.8 percent) than Canadians (8.5 percent).[10]
Fact No. 9: Americans have much better access to important new technologies like medical imaging than patients in Canada or the U.K. Maligned as a waste by economists and policymakers naïve to actual medical practice, an overwhelming majority of leading American physicians identified computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) as the most important medical innovations for improving patient care during the previous decade.[11] [See the table.] The United States has 34 CT scanners per million Americans, compared to 12 in Canada and eight in Britain. The United States has nearly 27 MRI machines per million compared to about 6 per million in Canada and Britain.[12]
Fact No. 10: Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.[13] The top five U.S. hospitals conduct more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other single developed country.[14] Since the mid-1970s, the Nobel Prize in medicine or physiology has gone to American residents more often than recipients from all other countries combined.[15] In only five of the past 34 years did a scientist living in America not win or share in the prize. Most important recent medical innovations were developed in the United States.[16] [See the table.]
Conclusion. Despite serious challenges, such as escalating costs and the uninsured, the U.S. health care system compares favorably to those in other developed countries.
First Thoughts | Blogs | First Things
We're Number 37 in Health Care! | Cato Institute
|
12% of kidney specialists in the UK said they had refused to treat patients due to limited resources (same source).
One study showed that patients accepted for dialysis stacked up this way.....
65 patients per million population UK
98 patients per million population in Canada
212 patients per million population in the US
Source: Delay, Denial and Dilution: The Impact of NHS Rationing on Heart Disease and Cancer
IEA Health and Welfare Unit (London), David G. Green and Laura Casper.
Here's more proof:
In order not to trigger penalty payments, the KBV devised an Emergency Programme which would, in effect, ration drug prescribing for the rest of the year.
The Emergency Programme proposed five steps:
1. Waiting lists for prescription drugs and other prescription treatments (Heilmittel, which include physiotherapy, acupuncture etc.) except in life threatening or medically essential circumstances
2. Postponement of innovative therapy to the following budget year
3. Radical switching of prescriptions from brand to the cheapest generic
4. Prior authorisation of expensive therapies
5. In the event of budget being exceeded, ‘emergency prescriptions’ to be issued temporarily, for which patients would have to pay out-of pocket and personally claim reimbursement (in Germany, unlike France, patients pay only user charges out of pocket)
Source: Why Ration Healthcare? Page 86
If healthcare costs less in Germany, then why does Germany have to ration?
Healthcare costs less, but we can't give you the medication you need, because we can't afford to buy it.
yes we spend a lot on healthcare...but we also have the BEST RECORDS of health.........
our outcomes (diagnosis and TREATMENT, and RECOVERY) is some of the BEST in the world
a) we rank in the top 10 of RECOVERY from cancer
b)American women have a 63 percent chance of living at least five years after a cancer diagnosis, compared to 56 percent for European women.
c)American men have a five-year survival rate of 66 percent — compared to only 47 percent for European men.
d)Among European countries, only Sweden has an overall survival rate for men of more than 60 percent.
e)For women, only three European countries (Sweden, Belgium and Switzerland) have an overall survival rate of more than 60 percent.
those(b-e) figures reflect the care available to all Americans, not just those with private health coverage. Great Britain, known for its 50-year-old government-run, universal health care system, fares worse than the European average: British men have a five-year survival rate of only 45 percent; women, only 53 percent.
how about a comparison to Canada???
a)For women, the average survival rate for all cancers is 61 percent in the United States, compared to 58 percent in Canada.
b)For men, the average survival rate for all cancers is 57 percent in the United States, compared to 53 percent in Canada.
In the United States, 85 percent of women aged 25 to 64 years have regular PAP smears, compared with 58 percent in Great Britain.The same is true for mammograms; in the United States, 84 percent of women aged 50 to 64 years get them regularly — a higher percentage than in Australia, Canada or New Zealand, and far higher than the 63 percent of British women.
which country has the highest cancer rate (cases not recovery)...denmark..they are the SICKEST (in terms of cancer) in the world
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
