How can the US afford a single-payer system? (Congress, healthcare, premium)

[pollyrobin]

Originally Posted by VTHokieFan

We currently have a single-payer system for the elderly: I believe all people aged 65 and older are eligible. I believe Medicare/Medicaid spends around $900 billion a year, if I am not mistaken, for 45 million people (elderly and disabled). Curious how much the number balloons when 300 million people are thrown on it.

Medicare tax for everyone. Get rid of everything else: Mediciad, Tricare, VA, PRIVATE HEALTH
INSURANCE. Oh, and get rid of the co-pay too. It's stupid, and no it does not deter over usage of
healthcare. A hypochondriac/abuser will use the system regardless, and most of them are Medicaid
patients anyways. We already pay for them.

There really isn't a sane argument against having a single payer system.

"Single-payer health program would cover all 42 million uninsured, upgrade everyone’s benefits and save $400 billion annually on bureaucracy, physicians say"

"Proponents say a Medicare-for-all system, also known as a single-payer system, would vastly simplify how the nation pays for care, improve patient health, restore free choice of physician, ELIMINATE COPAYS and DEDUCTIBLES, and yield substantial savings for individuals, families and the national economy.


Doctors group hails reintroduction of Medicare-for-all bill | Physicians for a National Health Program

[texdav]

democrats under Hillary Clinton when her husband was president failed to find funding needed for single payer. Then they started work on planning what you presently see in ACA.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by greywar

For the most part people are very happy with their healthcare overseas.

That's simply not true.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/85042234/T...lthcare-Report

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by VTHokieFan

It wouldn't. A single payer system entails the socialization of the payment mechanism, not the entire medical industry.

yes and no...

if the payer (government in this case) says the payment is xxx, yet the provider NEEDS yyy to cover all his over head, then its not just about a payment...we have many (some say as many as 1500) cost of living areas within the usa.... that's one of the key things to remember is that one size does not fit all

with UHC you cant GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (look at the health dept horror clinics)

you (the taxpayer) cant afford singlepayer aka uhc....unless we change the tax system

singlepayer ( total government funding(taxpayer) and total government control) is NOT what we need...not if we EXPECT the QUALITY of care

when you look at the COSTS of ACTUAL care (not insurance) and the OVERHEAD costs associated with the care..the cost would be astronomical to cover 320 million people

and lets look at the some other numbers

the ACTUAL cost just to help americans with Alzheimer's(forgive my spelling) is over 200 billion every year

and let's not forget: Obesity rates among OECD nations increased in recent years, with the highest rate in the U.S. at 34.3% -- which means one in 3 Americans is by definition obese.

number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.8 million for a total of 19 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer

number of americans with heart disease: 26.2 million and of those..((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 16 million ))((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.2 million))

number of americans in nursing homes: 2 million

More than 25 million Americans have significant vision loss.
(((hmmm more than 25 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))

number of americans with diabetes: 26 million
number of americans with asthma: 20 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.


while some of those may overlap...look at those numbers 19,26,25,26,20...that's 116 million with MAJOR health problem,,costly problems......we will ALWAYS be the largest spender in the world...we have the 3rd highest population in the world (next to china and India) and we have more people (total, not a percentage) with major problems than any other country in Europe.....I just showed you at least 116 million people with cancer, heart, blindness, diabetes, asthma.......that's more than France and great Britain COMBINED for their total populations.


most people (to include republicans) would support singlepayer....IF....

1. it wouldnt be like the CRAPCARE of the health department clinics (death traps)
2. and there was a fair way of funding it......replacing the personal income tax, the estate tax, the corporate tax with the fair tax (a consumption tax) is about the only way to fund it...but the liberals will never go for it


comparing costs to other countries....kinda apples to oranges

yes our cost are higher...but that is because EVERYTHING is higher

look at the second part of that slide checkup cost 59 (omg its double what it is in Canada)

so what are we saying we should FORCE docotrs and nurse to work for minimum wage. and have offices in huts

when you pay that doctor $59 ,, its not $59 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS

how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in Denmark

how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????

how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????

how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that aren't even american

how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???

how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????

how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????

don't you get it... medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesn't have)

want to know A BIG REASON why its lower in those other countries.??? salaries.....a nurse in France(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-20000 a year.....meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 40-78,000 in the usa


is that what you want??? do you want to have medical PROFESSIONALS be forced to work for nearly minimum wage



.............I would be all for single payer...except for two things that the "pro singlepayer" people cant answer..I want a GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (not health dept horror clinics)...and the COST (which the prosinglepayer people never address)

[pollyrobin]

Originally Posted by texdav

democrats under Hillary Clinton when her husband was president failed to find funding needed for single payer. Then they started work on planning what you presently see in ACA.

When Clinton was Pres. they wanted a mandate for all employers to provide HEALTH INSURANCE to
ALL its employees. It really was never touted as a single payer system. Insurance companies were
STILL very much a part of it. It also wanted fixed pay schedules for docs, with regional HMO style care.

If we had a single payer system, with Medicare for all (Improved) employers would not even have
to provide health "insurance", and it would make them better equipped to compete in a supposed
world economy.

[greywar]

Originally Posted by mm4

That's simply not true.

[scribd]85042234[/scribd]

LOL

Go read your link. The WHO rates the US as #37 in healthcare quality, while paying the highest. The text talks about everyone struggling with it....but the numbers show just where the US is.

[greywar]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

.............I would be all for single payer...except for two things that the "pro singlepayer" people cant answer..I want a GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (not health dept horror clinics)...and the COST (which the prosinglepayer people never address)

Yes, because our current system does such a great job of guaranteeing quality of care, and cost controls.

Who else recalls people being denied life saving healthcare due to departments whose ONLY job was to find a reason to cut someones healthcare when they actually needed it? Who else recalls the relentless cost increases for insurance?

People who are proposing single payer do in fact address both of these, and the ACA has many of their changes incorporated into it. Just as single payer would.

The rest is just nonsense as this works everywhere else.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by greywar

LOL

Go read your link. The WHO rates the US as #37 in healthcare quality, while paying the highest. The text talks about everyone struggling with it....but the numbers show just where the US is.

Lol all you want. I put the link up because it disproves your argument. The Swedes have discovered that cancer treatment outcomes are better in the U.S. vis-à-vis socialized European medicine; and overall wait times for just about everything are vastly lower here, while costs are spiraling there.

You saw in the story that the WHO claims those countries are better, but you conveniently fail to include here the counter arguments the article presents--the whole point in fact of its authoring.

[whogo]

Originally Posted by greywar

For the most part people are very happy with their healthcare overseas.

As for waiting months for treatment.....The last time I needed to see a specialist there was a two month waiting period on my insurance in 2012. If I want to see my current Dr through my current insurance it can take weeks to get an appointment. All to often I know another Dr that takes cash, and I just pay him to be seen within 24 hours outside of my working hours.

You must have pretty crappy insurance. I have never had insurance in my 35 working years where I ever had to wait.

The fact is if life expectancy is such a great measurement of healthcare efficiency then hispanics in the US must be getting better healthcare than whites. Does anyone believe that?

[greywar]

Originally Posted by whogo

You must have pretty crappy insurance. I have never had insurance in my 35 working years where I ever had to wait.

I've had multiple insurances. Oddly Kaiser was the first one with the longest waits, they were also the most expensive.

Maybe its a regional thing?