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Old 04-24-2015, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,866 posts, read 4,459,710 times
Reputation: 4188

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad3 View Post
In 1925 you could buy a brand new car for $400, but today a new car costs $15,000. What caused that price increase?
Answer: economic inflation.

Should min wage sometimes be increased to match economic inflation?

But republicans ignore inflation and poverty. And republican logic would say people living in 2015 could live on 1925 wages.


And can a full time worker making min wage afford an apartment and car?
Answer: No they can't, and republicans could care less.

Republicans are not about facts, morals, economics, or science (they are about the factless soundbites their CEO leaders tell them.)
Central banks and fiat money are also another thing that liberals, and a lot of "conservatives" also take on faith.
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Old 04-24-2015, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Inland Northwest
1,793 posts, read 1,261,834 times
Reputation: 1846
The fundamental, defining difference between conservative thinking vs liberal is that while liberals say "let's change things for the better" conservatives say "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". Conservatives think America is basically pretty good, liberals think it needs it be "fundamentally transformed", as Obama put it. Liberals say "we need to do something" (and proposal X is something, so we need to do it). Conservatives think we shouldn't lose sight of the principles that once made this country a place for the teaming masses to illegally come into.

If you believe, based on the news you see, that the place is falling apart, then indeed "we need to do something" (liberalism) is a reasonable response. If you believe life is pretty good, and slowly getting better, then you should stick with what's been working (conservatism).

The only thing that will work is…wait for it…compromise.

If having more women in nursing and more men in programming is a terrible, horrible thing, then we have to do something about it. If black people can never succeed, if it's unimaginable that any black person could ever be ajudge, a mayor, or a senator, then we need to do something about that. On theother hand, if black people can be judges, mayors, senators, and even presidentof the United States, then all the liberal progressivism is unnecessary, and indeed their complaints of being "kept down by the man" are just whining, excuses. If the society isn't basically racist, then Al Sharpton is out of a job.

Liberals and their progressivism REQUIRE big problems. If you don't believe there are big problems everywhere you look, you have no interest in liberals' big "solutions".

Ready to compromise?

I didn’t think so

Last edited by TrafficCory; 04-24-2015 at 02:57 PM..
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Corona del Mar & Coronado, CA
3,056 posts, read 1,798,758 times
Reputation: 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
I think you're completely wrong. It is liberalism that is based on emotions and rhetoric rather than reality, not conservatism.

It's liberals who insist there is a gender wage gap when the BLS studies that show the gap say it is from seniority, travel, hours worked, etc and not from gender discrimination.

It's liberals who continually support government stimulus as a means of getting out of economic hard times, despite history showing that method has never worked.

It's liberals who insisted that single motherhood was noble and heroic, when the absence of a father has been shown to be the single largest factor in teenage pregnancy, drug abuse, school dropout, delinquency, etc.

It's liberals who blame racism for the problems in the black community, when history shows the problems in the black community have actually gotten worse since the passage of Civil Rights than they were before.

It's liberals who continually push gun control when none of the gun control laws that have been enacted have ever been shown to reduce gun violence.

It's liberals who insist that the rich should pay higher tax rates to pay their "fair share", when the laffner curve demonstrates that higher tax rates on the wealthy actually result in less government revenue being collected.

It's liberals who promote labor unions as being great for the working class, when the standard of living in right to work states is actually no worse than that in union states.

It's liberals who claim there is no bias in the media or education, when as many as 80% of educators are registered Democrats and comparisons of media coverage of Democrat versus Republican politicians have shown conclusively that Democrats get far more and far more positive coverage.

It's liberals who support amnesty and immigration reform as being healthy for the nation, when the CBO itself reported that illegal immigration has resulted in a significantly higher unemployment rate amongst the nation's poor.

It's liberals who rail against the rich exploiting the poor resulting in people not getting a living wage, which directly contradicts the law of supply and demand which shows that a business must pay a wage the market will bear or else they will not be able to attract competent employees.

It's liberals who continually want to "invest" in education, when the results of all past increases in education spending have ended up with American students getting worse test results, not better.

It's liberals who push and push for increased social spending, when the results of their great "War on Poverty" over the past few decades have not resulted in any drop in the poverty rate whatsoever.

It's liberals who refuse to allow school voucher programs to pass, when the trial runs of voucher programs have only shown positive results.

It's liberals who claim that voter ID laws are a racist attempt to disenfranchise minorities, when the actual reality is that states that have voter ID laws do not have any less minority turnout than states that don't.

It's liberals who advance the idea that welfare doesn't promote government dependency, when social workers have shown that multigenerational poverty is a significant problems and that they have trouble with children in homes where the parents are on government assistance and do not instill study habits or value for education in those children.

So I'm afraid that your assertion that liberals place value in empirical results does not stand up to scrutiny. Liberalism is based on theory, not empirical results. The empirical results are that their policies have been failures with no reduction in poverty rates, no increase in children's educational results, no discernable proof of any of the "rampant racism" that supposedly exists, etc. Yet they continue to push the same policies year after year and election after election.

Liberalism is about doing things that feel good. It feels good to increase funding for schools. It feels good to help the disadvantaged. It feels good to be against racism. But the real world results? Failure. So I'm afraid your observation about the value liberals place on empirical results is wrong.
I am sure that led apoplexy, strokes, and assorted blood vessel explosions in Cambridge, NYC, Berkeley, Boulder and many other enclaves of liberalism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
Good examples. An interesting point to me is there seems to be many conservative Democrats: Religous people: Catholics and Muslims come, along with many union members, but not so many liberal Republicans
If you are talking on the national stage, name prominent conservative Democrats who are pro-life, pro-traditional marriage and for educational choice. The Scoop Jackson wing of the Democrats is dead. The Rockefeller wing of the Republicans is alive and well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
This is an unusual approach. But I think any respectable "canon of writers and thinkers" leans more left than right.

Examples?

Contemporary thought:
Baptist: The Half Has Never Been Told: Slavery and the Making of American Capitalism
Piketty: Capital in the Twenty-First Century
Diamond: Guns, Germs, and Steel
Duras: L'Amant
Pollan: The Omnivore's Dilemma
Derrida: Of Grammatology
Breillat: Sex is Comedy
Foucault: Madness and Civilization
Bolano: 2666
Buzan: People, States, and Fear
Booth: Theory of World Security
Annan: We the Peoples
Mandela: Long Walk to Freedom.
I love that last one. Nelson Mandela, that freedom loving man who had tires filled with gasoline hung around the heads of dissenters in his ranks and then ignited.

May I suggest a better group?

Buckley: God and Man at Yale
Johnson: Birth of the Modern
Rand: Atlas Shrugged
Huxley: Brave New World
von Hayek: Road to Serfdom
Freidman: Free to Choose
Weaver: Ideas Have Consequences
Babbit: Democracy and Leadership
Chambers: Witness
Lewis: Mere Christianity
Chesterton: What’s Wrong With The World

Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
I never ran into a Marxist in the economics department, but they were all over the history and English departments.
You weren't at Berkeley

Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Conservatism in current parlance is really a misnomer and has nothing to do with tradition or resistance to change. Just as liberalism has nothing to do with liberty.

Conservatism now means individualism, and liberalism means collectivism.
I would say it has been so dating back 200 years to Mill and Burke, with a dotted line further back to Locke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chad3 View Post
Only Six Percent Of Scientists Are Republicans: Pew Poll

When conservatives want REAL science (they need to ask a liberal.)
The Pew Poll was not a scientific one (ironically). It was drawn from members of one group and not normalized in any way to seek diversity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Far too many conservatives on CD are nasty, mean trolls... My experience with conservatives in real life is the complete opposite, they may disagree with me on issues, but I find them to be thoughtful caring people who are quite capable of having a real debate on issues that we don't agree on. Most of my conservative friends are quite liberal on social issues, whereas on CD it seems that about 90% of cons think that people on welfare are dirt bag drug addicts who deserve to die, and we should somehow round up 11 million undocumented people and either arrest or deport them.
I think there are far more nasty, mean trolls from the left than the right on C-D. I don't often see conservatives calling lefties "evil", "repugnant", "vile", etc like I do from the left. Are people called "stupid"? Sure, but I see that going both ways.

I think people on the Internet are meaner in general, but I see it especially on the left.
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:49 PM
 
110 posts, read 105,576 times
Reputation: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0618 View Post
Liberals think with their emotions (heart)

Conservatives think with thier mind. Thats why liberals think conservatives are mean and why conservatives think liberals are dumb. But conservatives usually keep that thought to themselves while liberals speak it out before thinking about what they just said.
May I just say, the eloquence with which you state this point is ovation worthy. I am stealing it for future use. Seriously, I have never seen or heard a simpler, more accurate description of this issue!
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Purgatory
6,321 posts, read 5,297,455 times
Reputation: 9791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post

Who knew that all those people standing in welfare lines were such brainiacs with an interest in empirical data?

The things you learn on these boards!
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
who said that??? not one poster here said all welfare recipients were liberals
.....
Oh really?
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Houston
25,818 posts, read 13,447,886 times
Reputation: 10807
Goldwater went from a liberal , to a conservative, to a libertarian without ever changing his views.
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Purgatory
6,321 posts, read 5,297,455 times
Reputation: 9791
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter View Post
......

......

I think there are far more nasty, mean trolls from the left than the right on C-D. I don't often see conservatives calling lefties "evil", "repugnant", "vile", etc like I do from the left. Are people called "stupid"? Sure, but I see that going both ways.

I think people on the Internet are meaner in general, but I see it especially on the left.

I could not disagree more. Just check this thread for one. Right above you i quoted an "ill informed poster" referring to Democrats being the ones in welfare lines.

The right may not use adjectives like "evil, repugnant or vile" as often, but the insults are more aggressive and usually targeted at a specific person.

Eg-

"Why don't you go back to watching MSNBC...."
"[You] Read a book once in a while...."

Then don't forget phrases such as "Obambots" and "*******s."

"Stupid" I suspect is also used more by the right. In fact, that's an easy enough thing to tabulate and i have some time. ..
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
14,378 posts, read 9,921,917 times
Reputation: 7859
As I have always said:

Conservatives rely on facts
Liberals rely on feelings and wishes
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Purgatory
6,321 posts, read 5,297,455 times
Reputation: 9791
As I have always said:

Liberals rely on facts.
Conservatives rely on emotions such as fear and paranoia.
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:30 PM
 
1,198 posts, read 1,041,578 times
Reputation: 1510
I find that people that identify as "Liberal" or "Conservative" are typically brain dead followers. No rational thinking person could identify strictly to one political ideology when forced to actually think about ****. They're basically like sports fans. They will stand behind their team regardless of how bad they suck. Smart people are more like fair weather fans in that they pick and choose what they support in regards to what is currently successful.


With that being said, Conservatives tend to base their fiscal beliefs on facts and social realities, while Liberals tend to base them on emotion or what they feel is morally right or wrong; however, It's the opposite when it comes to social issues, as then it is Liberals that tend to base their beliefs on facts and social realities, while Conservatives tend to base their beliefs on emotion or what they feel is morally right or wrong.

It's really pretty stupid when you think about it because if their were no teams people's beliefs would be all over the place. Just look at black people down south. They vote Democratic for the liberal fiscal policies despite the fact that they are super religious and socially conservative. Another example would be Christians voting for conservative fiscal policies. It basically undermines the teachings of Jesus Christ, but somehow these people have convinced themselves that this is ok because they're team is socially conservative. LOL

Last edited by lucky4life; 04-24-2015 at 04:46 PM..
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