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Old 04-27-2015, 12:33 PM
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,285 posts, read 2,023,645 times
Reputation: 5043


Conservatives are hate/greed based.
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Old 04-27-2015, 01:18 PM
8,391 posts, read 5,703,886 times
Reputation: 2314
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
take the partisan blinders off man, your spinning your tires on lies

you mean the liberlas policy on Iraq???...
Regime change in Iraq has been official US policy since 1998. The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, signed into law by President Clinton, states:

"It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

William Jefferson Clinton , President, September 29, 1998

...uhm...Isis was formed in 1999...
and ISIS was formed in 1999...during the Clinton era....the bush1/Clinton sanctions(after Desert storm) against Iraq killed half a million iraqi children, causing many refugees into Syria, and the birth of isis

The group was originally founded by a protégé of Osama Bin Laden, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, in 1999 as Jamaat al-Tawhid wa-l-Jihad (JTWJ).

considering its the liberals that constantly want to give iran nukes...

October 27th, 2000

Investigations are looking into Al Gore, who may have cut a secret - and possibly illegal - deal with the
Russians over arms sales to Iran have put the vice president where no
candidate likes to be on the eve of an election: playing defense.

Mr. Gore may have violated US law -
or at least used bad judgment - by signing a memorandum in 1995 that allowed
Russia to continue selling arms to Iran without the threat of economic
sanctions. It's an allegation that strikes at what has been viewed as a key
Gore asset - foreign-policy expertise.

This week's congressional hearings on the subject were prompted by documents
leaked to the press. The allegations against Gore are that he and then-Prime
Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin agreed to allow Russia to honor Soviet-era
contracts and complete deliveries of non-nuclear arms to Iran, a country
that the US considers a sponsor of international terrorism. In exchange,
Moscow agreed not to sell any new weapons to the Mideast nation.

Russian sales to Iran since this agreement was signed include a Kilo-class
attack sub (featured in the film "The Hunt for Red October"), long-range
torpedoes, and fighter planes.

Many senators say these are dangerous weapons in a dangerous part of
the world, and that Congress should have been informed. After closed Senate
hearings this week, the Clinton administration has refused to provide a text
of the agreements, senators say.

"What we do know now about the Gore-Chernomyrdin agreement and its
implications for our interests abroad is disturbing," says Sen. Sam
Brownback (R) of Kansas. "It is difficult for me to understand how this
agreement is consistent with the Iran-Iraq Arms Non-Proliferation Act of
1992, a bill that the vice president himself introduced during his years in
the Senate."

The Gore campaign and the administration counter that these weapons do not
imperil the US or its interests, and that the agreement helped prevent Iran
from acquiring nuclear weapons, which advances American interests. They add
that the agreement was reported by many media outlets at the time, and key
House members were briefed on the meeting.

"The arrangements discussed here today are manifestly in the interests of
the United States and of the effort to halt nuclear proliferation," said
Joseph DeThomas, deputy assistant secretary of State for regional
nonproliferation in testimony Wednesday. "A partisan brawl that drags
legitimately classified material into the newspapers ... can only benefit
"We also find incomprehensible that this agreement was not fully disclosed
even to those committees of Congress charged with receiving highly
classified briefings - apparently at the request of the Russian premier,"
the statement concludes.

In response, former Rep. Lee Hamilton (D) of Indiana issued a statement that
members of his staff had been briefed on the agreement in July 1995.

"The judgment call many of us made in that meeting was that it made sense to
get this kind of agreement," says a senior congressional aide who attended
the meeting.

Arms-deal charges strike at one of Gore's strengths - CSMonitor.com
Article: Russian offer won't stop Iranian nuclear arms: But Gore sees breakthrough on Moscow plutonium.(World)
Article from:The Washington Times (Washington, DC) Article date:September 23, 1997

Russia has offered to create a joint U.S.-Russian control system for the Bushehr nuclear reactor in Iran, but U.S. experts said yesterday the offer would do nothing to prevent Tehran from developing its own nuclear weapons.

The offer was made Sunday by Russian Atomic Energy Minister Viktor Mikhailov to his U.S. counterpart, Energy Secretary Federico Pena, who was visiting Moscow with Vice President Al Gore.

Mr. Gore met with Russian Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin in Moscow yesterday in the ninth round of high-powered talks of their joint Gore-Chernomyrdin Commission (GCC), held every six months, and told reporters afterwards their ...
Russian Offer Won't Stop Iranian Nuclear Arms: But Gore Sees Breakthrough on Moscow Plutonium - The Washington Times (Washington, DC) | HighBeam Research
Russia sells anti-missile systems to Iran (per agreement with Al Gore)
AFP via Babelfish translation | December 2, 2005

Russia sells anti-missile systems in Iran
MOSCOW - Iran signed a contract with Russia on the sale of 29 Russian systems anti-missile Tor M-1, affirmed Friday the financial daily newspaper Russian Vedomosti, quoting sources in Russian military industry.

"Iran will defend itself against the United States and Israel with the Russian systems Tor M-1", titrated Vedomosti with the one.

According to the sources of the daily newspaper, expressing itself under cover of anonymity, 29 systems' anti-missile Tor M-1 able to intercept cruise missiles and airborne bombs were manufactured by the military factory Koupol with Ijevsk (the Volga) for Greece which had already bought 21 systems of this type.

But the end of the Nineties Greece had given up the new contract which would then have cost him 526 million dollars.

"We recently signed a contract with a foreign State on the sale of anti-missile systems Tor M-1", declared with AFP the spokesman of the factory Koupol, Maria Oudalova, joined by telephone to Ijevsk.

The spokesman refused to specify of which country it acted and which was the number of systems sold Tor M-1, explaining that it acted of a "strategic secrecy" of Russia.

The service of press of the official agency Rossoboronexport in charge of Russian exports of weapons, joined by AFP, affirmed that it "did not have information" in connection with this contract.

The contract "will not violate any international engagement of Russia", because Moscow had left in 2000 a secret agreement with Washington known under the name of Gore-Tchernomyrdine protocol which limited the Russian deliveries of weapons to Iran, underlines Vedomosti.

The Tor systems are "a weapon of defense" and "represent a danger to the United States only if this country attacks Iran", raises a Russian expert of the magazine Exportations of weapons, Mikhaïl Barabanov, quoted by the newspaper.

Iran in particular seeks "to defend its nuclear thermal power station" that Moscow is building in Bouchehr, bus "Israel had affirmed that it examined the possibility of launching strike preventive against this site", explains a professor of the Russian Institute of the International relations, Sergueï Droujilovski, quoted by Vedomosti.

Washington shows Teheran to seek to obtain the nuclear weapon under cover of civil activities.

The purchase of the systems Tor M-1 could cost Iran more than 700 million dollars, according to another expert, Dmitri Vassiliev of the Center of analysis of the strategies and technologies.

As reported by the Wall Street Journal, in the intervening years Russia has shipped Iran three new Kilo-class submarines—the most advanced in the world today—as well as wake-homing torpedoes designed to sink U.S. aircraft carriers. They’ve also shipped MiG-29 fighter jets, SU-24 fighter bombers, strategic bombers, jet trainers and anti-ballistic missile systems—all without creating so much as a warning blip on U.S. radar screens, thanks to that 1995 deal. “The Gore-Chernomyrdin pact was a coup of major proportions for Moscow” (op. cit., Oct. 18, 2000).
Russia sells anti-missile systems to Iran (per agreement with Al Gore)

Iran Missile Update - 1999
The Risk Report
Volume 5 Number 1 (January-February 1999)

In July 1998, Iran took a giant step forward in its missile program by flight-testing the Shahab-3, an 800-mile nuclear-capable missile that will be able to reach Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey. Iran is also developing a 1240-mile missile called Shahab-4, and within five years, according to a recent U.S. Congressional study, Iran might develop an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) with outside help.

The Iranian missile program and the speed of its development would not have been possible without extensive assistance from North Korea, Russia and China.

Iranian missile program

U.S. intelligence had been watching the progress of the Shahab-3 for some time before the launch. In December 1997, U.S. reconnaissance satellites observed a ground test of the Shahab's rocket engine. The test occurred at Iran's Shahid Hemmat Industrial Group (SHIG) and was the sixth or eighth of the year, according to intelligence estimates.

On July 22, 1998, Iran conducted Shahab-3's first test-flight. U.S. intelligence observed what appeared to be an extended-range version of the 1000 km-range North Korean Nodong missile. The Shahab-3 is reportedly not simply a Nodong with new paint, however, but an Iranian-developed missile based on Nodong technology imported from North Korea. The Shahab-3 is liquid-fueled, carried on a road-mobile launcher, and could be deployed within one to two years, depending on the level of outside assistance.

not true at all

...but you are falling for the spin

BUDGET deficit/surplus is an ESTIMATE

balanced budget...only on paper..bush inherited a deficit
fact: Clinton /newt never had an actual surplus....the debt went up EVERY fiscal year
Year........ YearEnding.... ..National Debt........Annual actual budget Deficit

FY1994..... 09/30/1994.... $4.192749 trillion...... $281.26 billion
FY1995..... 09/29/1995.... $4.973982 trillion...... $281.23 billion
FY1996..... 09/30/1996.... $5.224810 trillion...... $250.83 billion
FY1997..... 09/30/1997.... $5.413146 trillion...... $188.34 billion
FY1998..... 09/30/1998.... $5.526193 trillion...... $113.05 billion
FY1999..... 09/30/1999.... $5.656270 trillion...... $130.08 billion
FY2000..... 09/29/2000.... $5.674178 trillion...... $17.91 billion
FY2001..... 09/28/2001.... $5.877463 trillion...... $133.29 billion

for example Clinton/newt passed a balanced budget which gave an ESTIMATED surplus....based on estimated revenue and estimated spending....in the end when all the pennies were counted...no surplus..a deficit...they SPENT MORE than the actual revenue

another example...easier example..... you make 75k and have a take home after taxes of 60k...you write a household budget covering everything, and PROJECT spending to be 57k...........BUT.....

the washer and dryer break,, and the transmission of your car falls out..... you end up spending 5k getting everything fixed/replaced...

you NOW don't have a surplus anymore.... you have a 2k deficit adding to your debt


I don't blame you, your just a blinder wearing partisan, who will repeat the spins and lies of your fascist liberal masters
Wow what a massive amount of nothing.

Look, I get that conservatives don't deal with reality.

I get that they don't want to deal with the fall out for their cheerleading for war in Iraq and the disaster that has been for that region and America, but its all right there.

The war opponents predicted everything that has occurred in Iraq.

Civil war, yep

Iran getting stronger, yep

Destabilizing the area, yep

Drawing in a bunch of radicals into the nation where none existed, yep.

conservatives said none of these things would happen. And they have learned nothing from their horrible support for the Iraq War.

The same thing with the budget surplus that Bill Clinton got from raising taxes.

Tax increases that conservatives predicted wouldn't bring in any new revenue because it would destroy the economy.

conservatives have not balanced a budget and don't care about balanced budgets. conservatives care about income tax cuts for rich people.

Again GWBush inherited a budget surplus and then said this budget surplus proves that the government is taking too much in taxes, that is what GWBush and elected conservatives were saying to push income tax cuts for rich people and also that those income tax cuts would boost the economy.

Again reality, those tax cuts combined with the war on Terror spending produced budget deficits and didn't super charge the economy like conservatives predicted.

Have conservatives learned one thing from that experience, nope.

Its because for conservatives ideology trumps reality every time. Policy outcomes are wholly irrelevant to conservatives.
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