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Old 04-22-2019, 09:29 AM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,593,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
This fear that someone will be able to control society and dictate who can buy what is very old and discussed in a famous passage in the bible.
Quote:
The Mark of the Beast
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
The only thing I would like to point out is that central banks are very dependent on cash. If governments were trying to get rid of cash, it would be vanishing.

There is a short 16 year period in American history (1945-1961) when the cash supply was increasing at roughly 1% per year. That barely would have kept up with population growth, let alone inflation and the ever expanding GDP. Checks probably made up the ever increasing numbers of bills, along with Department store credit cards and Diners Club. Bank. Visa's history begins in 1958, when Bank of America initiated its BankAmericard program in Fresno, Calif.
But in the decade between 1961 and 1971 you would think the ever increasing number of credit options would mean that cash would drop below the 1% of the previous 16 years. Instead US currency lost it's connection to precious metals. Coins were now made from base metals, the silver dollars could no longer be changed into silver coins, and eventually they could no longer be changed into silver bullion, and finally in August 1971 President Nixon declared unilaterally that foreign governments could no longer exchange their US banknotes for gold. In fact the issuing of cash became very profitable for the central bank.

From 1 January 1961 until present currency in circulation increased by a factor of 53.637 or an average of 7.11% per year, far above the increase in GDP. Well over a trillion dollars in $100 bills is now circulating overseas, which means that American purchased at least a trillion dollars in goods and services and paid for it with money we printed.
"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast" ...

Which began (imo) in the u.s. when the very first SSN was issued. It isn't one thing ... but a series of things to come.

When John wrote Revolutions he did so in a time that if what he wrote was universally understood he would be dead before his quill hit the paper. 666; mark of the beast are symbolisms and try and figure out what that man meant when he wrote that (in the days of Rome) has kept many of a scholar busy. However, if we are to believe it is control over the buying and selling of goods ... an evolution of things to come as societies have a habit of rinse and repeats ...

Cash does not need to circulate in an economy in order for it to run, not when there are electronic cards that will count same as cash digitally per individual. Saw it right off 20 years ago when I stopped carrying cash in my wallet. Then I looked out exponentially I went wow, we could be on our way ...
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:42 AM
 
Location: San Diego CA
8,484 posts, read 6,889,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The War on Cash: Transparently Totalitarian | International Man

This article states how the "powers that be" are tightening the noose of tyranny by slowly outlawing cash transactions. The ultimate goal is to have all transactions become virtual so that governments and banks have complete control of all wealth. The principals of freedom that was the promise of the United States is now slipping through our fingers like sand.
Come on. These are private business decisions. No government entity is outlawing anything. No cash on hand reduces the threat of robbery. No daily trek to the bank to deposit the day's receipts. Easier accounting. Not making change for every transaction. On and on.
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Old 04-22-2019, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY 🇺🇸
36,754 posts, read 14,825,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgsing View Post
Come on. These are private business decisions. No government entity is outlawing anything. No cash on hand reduces the threat of robbery. No daily trek to the bank to deposit the day's receipts. Easier accounting. Not making change for every transaction. On and on.

Obviously, you didn't bother to read the article, in which countries which enacted cash transaction bans are listed.

Kinda makes your argument go pfffft.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:49 PM
 
14,611 posts, read 17,557,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Cash does not need to circulate in an economy in order for it to run, not when there are electronic cards that will count same as cash digitally per individual.
Saw it right off 20 years ago when I stopped carrying cash in my wallet. Then I looked out exponentially I went wow, we could be on our way ...
The first society on Earth to go almost entirely to digital transactions was Iceland in the mid 1980s. Massive inflation meant that the Central Bank was issuing new denominations of banknotes every few years. Finally they just stopped issuing banknotes and most people switched to cards (this was years before cellular phones).

Iceland remained relatively cashless for over 20 years until all the banks in Iceland went bankrupt at once (in 2007). So the central bank had to issue banknotes again. Finally in 2013 they issued a new denomination which was twice the value of the previous largest denomination.

South Korea had only small denomination banknotes in circulation (worth less than US $10) prior to June 23, 2009. They were obviously very afraid of North Korean counterfeiting. Finally in 2009 they relented an issued a banknote worth about $45 which has since become very popular.

Britain got rid of all large value banknotes in 1946, keeping only the £1 and the £5 banknotes plus their coins. At the time £5 ~ $20. They were afraid of Nazi counterfeiting operation called Operation Bernhard.

Prior to the introduction of the Euro both France and Finland had very little cash in circulation. However, they bowed to the demands of the ECB when they switched to the Euro, and fairly large amounts of cash are in circulation.

At present Sweden, Norway, and Denmark are the only countries in the highly developed world which are reducing their supply of cash in circulation. Sweden leads the other two countries by a significant margin, and will probably be the first country in the world to introduce a Central Bank Digital Currency.

If any country goes cashless first, most bets are on Sweden. It is likely that a fair amount of Euro banknotes will still circulate in Sweden even if they stop making banknotes.

Sweden, Norway , ande Denmark no longer can afford to produce their own cash. Sweden has banknotes made in Britain, Norway and Finland have their banknotes produced in France. All three countries have their coins made in Finland. It is possible the mere fact that they have to buy these notes will make it easier to give them up.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:54 PM
 
3,372 posts, read 1,565,973 times
Reputation: 4597
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The War on Cash: Transparently Totalitarian | International Man

This article states how the "powers that be" are tightening the noose of tyranny by slowly outlawing cash transactions. The ultimate goal is to have all transactions become virtual so that governments and banks have complete control of all wealth. The principals of freedom that was the promise of the United States is now slipping through our fingers like sand.

Exactly. Basically we have digital currency now. How many people do you know that actually carry cash? Governments want a digital currency so everything can be tracked. It is all about control and the hunt for taxes.
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Old 04-23-2019, 05:32 PM
 
14,611 posts, read 17,557,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heart84 View Post
Exactly. Basically we have digital currency now. How many people do you know that actually carry cash? Governments want a digital currency so everything can be tracked. It is all about control and the hunt for taxes.
I just don't see what you are talking about

Cash in circulation has increased at over 7% per year since 1961. That is much faster than GDP, population, or inflation growth.

cash in circulation per individual in USA
$4,960 | 2017
$2,927 | 2008
$1,679 | 1998
$870 | 1988
$428 | 1978

Last edited by PacoMartin; 04-23-2019 at 05:43 PM..
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Old 04-23-2019, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,010,275 times
Reputation: 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The War on Cash: Transparently Totalitarian | International Man

This article states how the "powers that be" are tightening the noose of tyranny by slowly outlawing cash transactions. The ultimate goal is to have all transactions become virtual so that governments and banks have complete control of all wealth. The principals of freedom that was the promise of the United States is now slipping through our fingers like sand.
Sweden has already gone a long way towards being cashless. Many Swedes are getting implanted chips so that they don't even have to carry a credit card. It's called PROGRESS. I suppose some probably decried the switch from cowry shells to paper money and coins.

https://sweden.se/business/cashless-society/

Electronic transactions generate useful data that cash cannot.

It also opens the door for monitoring of transactions that should not be made. Suppose you have already purchased two chocolate bars today, and now want to buy a third. The electronic monitor could step in and say 'sale declined,' just as if you had exceeded your credit limit.
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:06 PM
 
1,687 posts, read 1,282,435 times
Reputation: 2731
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
Sweden has already gone a long way towards being cashless. Many Swedes are getting implanted chips so that they don't even have to carry a credit card. It's called PROGRESS. I suppose some probably decried the switch from cowry shells to paper money and coins.

https://sweden.se/business/cashless-society/

Electronic transactions generate useful data that cash cannot.

It also opens the door for monitoring of transactions that should not be made. Suppose you have already purchased two chocolate bars today, and now want to buy a third. The electronic monitor could step in and say 'sale declined,' just as if you had exceeded your credit limit.
You call tyranny progress?!

That all sounds absolutely horrible. Having our purchasing ability passivley restricted by a chip algorithm warrants violent resistance.
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:04 PM
 
29,483 posts, read 14,643,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsabi View Post
Under Trump there is more surveillance of citizens than ever before. Trump has also used the power the of government to punish many people who oppose him. Trump has even had comedians investigated by the FBI and put on no-fly lists simply for expressing free speech by using him as a source of comedy.
If the US goes cashless the elitists will be able to control citizens by restricting their accounts and/or preventing them from buying items such as food.

What's next? Coming soon to a neighborhood near you in the US:

China Using Surveillance, Social Credit Scores to Ban People | Fortune
Was going to post that link. Truly scary stuff. Just imagine what could happen if they could control ones debit card.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
8,553 posts, read 10,975,842 times
Reputation: 10803
In order to go cashless, politicians are going to have to amend the constitution.
It clearly states that paper bills, and coins are legal tender for all debts.
Let's see how they get around that.
Stores that presently do not accept cash, can be brought before the courts, and be ordered by the courts to accept cash.
The problem is, like sheep, most don't want to bother fighting the politicians, so they accept what is happening.

Bob.
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