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Old 05-03-2015, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,360,856 times
Reputation: 7990

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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
We're not pals and you're absolutely correct about having no say so.

Hmmm, just goes to that your form of hate and racism can serve as a useful deflective tool. In this case it got you out of having to back up your previous ridiculous claim.
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Old 05-03-2015, 10:44 AM
 
2,643 posts, read 2,624,013 times
Reputation: 1722
You have public sector unions to protect people from being fired by vindictive citizens or officeals and cheap taxpayers who don't want to pay veteran salaries. Unfortunately, being a union head has become rather luxurious (or keeps that person from heading back out into the trenches) and that DOES need to be reigned in.

Having said that, I've seen bad teachers fired left and right or just not have their contracts renewed if they don't have tenure. It's up to the administrator to do the work - if he/she doesn't, then you have a problem. One local school system around here had such inept administration that they let of any teacher about to hit tenure. Pathetic.
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Old 05-03-2015, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,360,856 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS View Post
You have public sector unions to protect people from being fired by vindictive citizens or officeals and cheap taxpayers who don't want to pay veteran salaries. Unfortunately, being a union head has become rather luxurious (or keeps that person from heading back out into the trenches) and that DOES need to be reigned in.

Having said that, I've seen bad teachers fired left and right or just not have their contracts renewed if they don't have tenure. It's up to the administrator to do the work - if he/she doesn't, then you have a problem. One local school system around here had such inept administration that they let of any teacher about to hit tenure. Pathetic.
Any union contract, even private sector, will have a 'just cause' provision stating that the employer must show just cause for termination, and that the burden of proof is on the employer. That should be sufficient to protect against wrongful termination. Public sector contracts tend to go well beyond that to the point where termination becomes difficult to impossible. Of course this doubtless varies from region to region, but the long term trend is clear given the nature of the public sector unions. Maybe it hasn't come to your area yet, but give it time.
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Old 05-03-2015, 12:10 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,198,461 times
Reputation: 18824
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Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Hmmm, just goes to that your form of hate and racism can serve as a useful deflective tool. In this case it got you out of having to back up your previous ridiculous claim.
I made no claims.
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Old 05-03-2015, 12:34 PM
 
2,499 posts, read 2,626,763 times
Reputation: 1789
Contracts do not make it difficult to terminate an employee. I deal with this daily- do you? Or are you reading some talking point somewhere.

The blame for failing to terminate falls squarely on the shoulders of the managers not on the union. The managers use the unions for justification for their failures. You fall for it.
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Old 05-03-2015, 12:36 PM
 
2,499 posts, read 2,626,763 times
Reputation: 1789
Show me where in this contract it limits my ability to terminate an employee

http://cwa1031.org/pdf2013/cwa-contract.pdf
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Old 05-03-2015, 12:40 PM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,325,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
With private sector unions, contracts are negotiated with corps. on one side of the table, and unions on the other side. There is a natural give and take. With public sector unions, the union are on one side of the table, and the politicos they helped elect are on the other side. It amounts to a kickback scheme. Instead of give and take, we get take and take.

This has become generally true with public sector workers. Accountability has been laid to waste. Public sector union contracts are written such that it becomes close to impossible to fire a bad apple. A state agency head in my state (WA) said that it was a "hellacious process" to fire an employee.

Liberals love big government. OK fine, we're going to disagree on that, but if you love big government, why would you support a mechanism that inevitably means poor results from government agencies and programs? If you can't have accountability, you're inevitably going to have poor results. I am far from anti-union. I'm a union member and even hold a low-level elected position in my (private sector) union. But FDR was right.
Here's the problem with the argument, there is nothing to stop public sector workers from combining in political organizations to extract the same kinds of concessions and working conditions from politicians.
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