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I am a Democrat who agrees with and supports the statement below.. lets take that a bit further.. the employment issue is , employers for OVER 20 years have had E Verify or a similar program and refuse to use it because, illegals are a huge source of cheap labor.. Illegals in the work place has driven down cost /wages for legal Americans and driven up profits For Greedy Thieving Americans for Over 50 Years..They have also at the same time driven of Social Cost because they are so seldom paid a Living Wage..Illegals are NOT supposed to access any of our social programs !!! If they are gaing access then those allowing access needed to be PUNISHED and The Punishment NEEDS to begin at the top of the State and Local Structure.. While we are at it we need to STOP the Cheating and the Fraud by legal citizens as well!
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Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment
Points 2 and 3 look good, just a few changes to 1 and I am on board:
1) Encourage those currently here "illegally" to leave. No legalization for those who came/stayed illegally, no citizenship. No need for mass deportations. Make it marginally tougher for illegals to work, rent apartments, open bank accounts, etc. and many will go home voluntarily.
It is right now.. Illegals help each other get across the border and find housing and jobs and how to take advanage of this and that policy or system.. Its in FACT starts on the Mexican side of the border.. STOP THE JOBS! That will stop the migration ... Go Back to Immigration round ups but only do it at places of employment and only punish employers.. No More Hospital ER Visits for anyone not having proof of citizenship.. and let proof fall on the patient.. Heck do here as they do in Mexico.. If Your Not Born Here you can NEVER hold a Public Office or hold a job with ANY municipality.. any time "your" seen working in public view your are open for needing to prove you are working here legally.. IF A CITIZEN HIRES AN ILLEGAL?? They too have broken the law and are arrested..and fined ... Want your kids in school ? Prove you are here legally and have either an approved job or passive income 5000 times the minimum hourly wage per month from your country of origin.. This list can easily be extended BTDT Lived there..
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Originally Posted by UrbanCrossroads
Once they are legalized, they can then sponsor their relatives to come over here. It'll be a neverending cycle.
@Macgregorsailor51 - What about those born abroad because their parents were in the military or out of the country temporarily? Would someone like John McCain be ineligible to you?
Illegals do NOT play vital roles in the economy. Rather they are parasites who take far, far more than they give. Many get paid under the table thus not paying any payroll taxes. Then there are those who use fake or stolen IDs. So many native-born Puerto Ricans have been victims of ID theft by illegals that the Puerto Rican government had to take the unprecedented step of declaring all PR-issued birth certificates null and void. Now if native-born PRs need a copy of their birth certificate, they have to jump through many hoops to get a secured, certified copy. I guess it's okay with you when victims of ID theft are put into a world of hurt when this happens.
As for those who use fake SSNs---sometimes those numbers actually belong to living people who also end up in a world of hurt. Did you know that, according to the law, it's okay if someone uses your SSN as long as they don't use your name with it? Plus if someone is using your SSN, the SSA won't tell you, rather you hear from the IRS for not filing a return on a job you never worked.
You are also unaware that when ICE was allowed to do raids, Americans would line up that very same day to apply for those jobs that were occupied by illegals. So your nonsense of businesses being on the "verge of collapse" if they lost their illegals is BS. Besides, if a business deliberately hires illegals instead of Americans and legal immigrants, it's a diseased business and needs to die.
As for higher skilled immigrants---the answer is "no" --- certainly not when we have sleazy employers laying off skilled Americans and replacing them with H1-Bs. The law says these business have to hire Americans over visa workers but loopholes get exploited.
Identify theft- I agree that identify theft is a huge issue among those here illegally. Those who engaged in it should not be eligible to stay. They would have to verify that they never engaged in those practices and should be arrested or deported if they did.
Role of illegals in the US economy- How can illegal immigration be a massive issue with millions upon millions of people living in the US illegally, well at the same time they have only a minor role in the US labor force? IMO, they are both inter-related. The numbers are huge in both cases. This has been a population that has been growing for years (although it has appeared to have leveled off in recent years). I just don't think we can fix this problem overnight.
High skilled immigrants- Yeah, there are some tension with H1-B VISA holders competing against native born citizens. But in a mobile global economy, those jobs can just go overseas. I would personally rather have the workers come here than the jobs go there. Plus, long term we need immigration. We have an aging population and would face Japanese-style stagnation if we don't grow the share of our working population. Ultimately, US prosperity rests on the fact that we have a high skilled, high productivity workforce. Continued US prosperity rests on attracting high skilled immigrants. We have the best universities in the world and yet we send many of our best PHDs back to their countries. Educated immigrants are responsible for many of our growth companies, their children excel at school and best the children of native born on pretty much every social indicator.
Since when has rounding up groups of people who entered this country illegally become a "paramilitary" action?
What does rounding up those same people have to do with MY civil rights as a citizen of this country?
If anything the action will benefit, and enhance MY civil rights.
You are grasping at straws assuming something that would never happen, hoping it will sway liberal minds to your twisted way of thinking.
Take the rose colored glasses off, and look at the situation realistically.
As someone else mentioned, you'd have to have a police force of some kind to round up these groups of people. How it affects YOU is.. I assume you're advocating these police to have police powers to arrest, after all, that's the only way they can 'round up' these people.. So, how do they tell if someone is here legally or not? Probably "Show me your papers"..Which you would have to do if asked as well. Perhaps they have the power to search your house if they feel you are lying to them about there being any illegals inside.. Maybe they monitor your phone calls to foreign countries.. Monitor your email to foreign countries.. And, if you send an email to someone in Denver, and it routes outside the country.. Well, that's fair game for them to read as well, because you MIGHT be harboring an illegal...
That is how it affects your civil rights. And those are not straws.. Some of those things are happening now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyXY
@Macgregorsailor51 - What about those born abroad because their parents were in the military or out of the country temporarily? Would someone like John McCain be ineligible to you?
McCain is a citizen.. I don't think anyone here is advocating a change so that anyone with an American mother or father who is a citizen is not automatically a citizen.
Wasn't Cruz born in Canada? But, to citizen parents..
It's like the whole Obama thing.. Who cares whether he was born in Kenya, Hawaii or on the damn moon? His mother was a citizen, therefore, HE is a citizen.. I don't think there's ever been any question regarding whether his mother was actually his mother or not.
Where, perhaps, some adjustment does need to be made, is people sneaking across the border to give birth.. 2 illegals have a child in Texas.. The child is a citizen.. That behavior should not be rewarded.
Identify theft- I agree that identify theft is a huge issue among those here illegally. Those who engaged in it should not be eligible to stay. They would have to verify that they never engaged in those practices and should be arrested or deported if they did.
Role of illegals in the US economy- How can illegal immigration be a massive issue with millions upon millions of people living in the US illegally, well at the same time they have only a minor role in the US labor force? IMO, they are both inter-related. The numbers are huge in both cases. This has been a population that has been growing for years (although it has appeared to have leveled off in recent years). I just don't think we can fix this problem overnight.
High skilled immigrants- Yeah, there are some tension with H1-B VISA holders competing against native born citizens. But in a mobile global economy, those jobs can just go overseas. I would personally rather have the workers come here than the jobs go there. Plus, long term we need immigration. We have an aging population and would face Japanese-style stagnation if we don't grow the share of our working population. Ultimately, US prosperity rests on the fact that we have a high skilled, high productivity workforce. Continued US prosperity rests on attracting high skilled immigrants. We have the best universities in the world and yet we send many of our best PHDs back to their countries. Educated immigrants are responsible for many of our growth companies, their children excel at school and best the children of native born on pretty much every social indicator.
ID theft---And where will the money come from to allow for such a screening? Besides, when illegals commit ID theft, they aren't using their real names. When they use fake SSNs, same thing. So, how do you know when they apply for amnesty that the name they give is even their real name? Many don't even have birth certificates to back this up.
Right now, we have 8 million no-match SSNs in the work force. E-verify needs to be made the law of the land and run everybody in the work force through it to weed out those who are not authorized to work in this country.
As for illegals in the US economy---I call BS on what you wrote. Did you even read where I pointed out that when ICE was allowed to do raids, Americans would line up to apply for those jobs? In the case of Howard Industries in MS, some Americans drove as much as 40 miles for a chance at a job.
Last year, a local restaurant chain was found to have 100 illegals working for them. All the illegals were fired and guess what?---The restaurant didn't miss a beat. In other words, they weren't forced to shut down because they easily found Americans and legal immigrants to take those jobs.
We don't need illegals at all in this country. Period.
As for High Skilled immigrants---Here we go again---the same old nonsense! In other words, you are another one who is saying that if we don't let those thousands of H1-Bs into this country, all those jobs will go overseas. Please. Whether or not those jobs go overseas or are given to H1-Bs, it still means that Americans go without work.
And what's so bad about letting those from the third world get an education here and have them return to their own countries? Third world countries need to retain their best and brightest in order for their own countries to prosper.
@Macgregorsailor51 - What about those born abroad because their parents were in the military or out of the country temporarily? Would someone like John McCain be ineligible to you?
You do know that there are provisions for people who are in the military, don't you? Besides, when McCain was born, the Panama Canal Zone was under American jurisdiction at the time.
Take the rose colored glasses off, and look at the situation realistically.
As someone else mentioned, you'd have to have a police force of some kind to round up these groups of people. How it affects YOU is.. I assume you're advocating these police to have police powers to arrest, after all, that's the only way they can 'round up' these people.. So, how do they tell if someone is here legally or not? Probably "Show me your papers"..Which you would have to do if asked as well. Perhaps they have the power to search your house if they feel you are lying to them about there being any illegals inside.. Maybe they monitor your phone calls to foreign countries.. Monitor your email to foreign countries.. And, if you send an email to someone in Denver, and it routes outside the country.. Well, that's fair game for them to read as well, because you MIGHT be harboring an illegal...
That is how it affects your civil rights. And those are not straws.. Some of those things are happening now.
Calm down. There is no need to round up illegals. Just do the following---make E-verify the law of the land. Once that's done, run everybody in the work force through it to weed out the 8 million no-match SSNs. Do away with the whole anchor baby/birth tourism fiasco so there is no incentive for tourists, non-immigrant visa holders and illegals to give birth on US soil. If they do give birth on US soil, the child would not be a US citizen. Make life difficult for illegals and they will leave on their own accord. When AZ got tough on illegals, they left the state in droves.
Calm down. There is no need to round up illegals. Just do the following---make E-verify the law of the land. Once that's done, run everybody in the work force through it to weed out the 8 million no-match SSNs. Do away with the whole anchor baby/birth tourism fiasco so there is no incentive for tourists, non-immigrant visa holders and illegals to give birth on US soil. If they do give birth on US soil, the child would not be a US citizen. Make life difficult for illegals and they will leave on their own accord. When AZ got tough on illegals, they left the state in droves.
Yep, and big fines for employers who keep illegals on.
It ain't that hard as you point out.
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