Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-08-2015, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Port Charlotte
3,930 posts, read 6,442,779 times
Reputation: 3457

Advertisements

Gov Bill Richardson pushed for a rail line to connect Albuquerque and Santa Fe. Last year it made $2.8M in fares, cost $28.4M to run. This is a microcosm of all commuter rail. Even the commuter rail in the northeast runs on a subsidy.

New Mexico's commuter rail line faced with financial burdens
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-08-2015, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
7,356 posts, read 6,523,779 times
Reputation: 5169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restrain View Post
*SNIPThis is a microcosm of all roads. Even the roads in the northeast run on a subsidy.
Fixed that for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2015, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,868 posts, read 26,498,769 times
Reputation: 25766
Easy solution. Raise fares until income balances with operating costs, it would be about 10X. If people want the service, they will pay for it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2015, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Stasis
15,823 posts, read 12,461,196 times
Reputation: 8599
It's no different than funding for roads and highways. Roads and highways don't pay for themselves.

Republican Texas has 65 toll roads but the House is considering legislation that will eliminate the tolls.
Texas toll roads could be a thing of the past - KFOX - Breaking News, Weather, and Traffic
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2015, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Stasis
15,823 posts, read 12,461,196 times
Reputation: 8599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Easy solution. Raise fares until income balances with operating costs, it would be about 10X. If people want the service, they will pay for it.
The article doesn't mention the $12 million revenue from track use fees to freight train companies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2015, 04:43 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,096,009 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
The article doesn't mention the $12 million revenue from track use fees to freight train companies.
its definitely an interesting business, wish I knew more about how it operated.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2015, 05:06 PM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,218,061 times
Reputation: 12102
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
The article doesn't mention the $12 million revenue from track use fees to freight train companies.
Bnsf owns the tracks. Track usage isn't free.

History lesson. Atcheson, Topeka and Santa Fe, ATSF, railroad owned the right of way through Santa Fe. Former Great Northern Railway and Burlington system merged in 1970 and became Burlington Northern or BN. 1991 BN purchased ATSF and became BNSF. All the right of way and trackage became the property of BNSF and became second largest rail system behind Union Pacific.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2015, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Stasis
15,823 posts, read 12,461,196 times
Reputation: 8599
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Bnsf owns the tracks. Track usage isn't free.

History lesson. Atcheson, Topeka and Santa Fe, ATSF, railroad owned the right of way through Santa Fe. Former Great Northern Railway and Burlington system merged in 1970 and became Burlington Northern or BN. 1991 BN purchased ATSF and became BNSF. All the right of way and trackage became the property of BNSF and became second largest rail system behind Union Pacific.
New Mexico Rail Runner Express - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
After assessing the needs of the track, the state of New Mexico committed to purchasing the railroad corridor from Belen to the New Mexico-Colorado border from BNSF (although, thus far only the portion between Belen and Lamy, NM has been purchased), to ensure that commuter trains would always get the right-of-way and have priority over freight trains in the corridor.
NMDOT considers whether Rail Runner worth cost | New Mexico News - KOAT Home
Meyers said Rail Runner also gets federal funding, along with state grants. That is in addition to about $12 million in gross receipts tax, and usage fees from the major railroad companies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2015, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,868 posts, read 26,498,769 times
Reputation: 25766
From the article: The average fare is $2.47, compared with the average trip length of 40.7 miles. Some time ago the IRS determined that the average operating cost for a car was >.50 a mile. If we simply charged train riders the same rate that drivers pay ($20 a trip), it sounds like the financial burden on the tax payer would be eliminated. Why would that be hard to do?

Quote:
The average fare is $2.47, compared with the average trip length of 40.7 miles. That adds up to 6 cents per passenger mile. A 2011 Department of Transportation study of several train systems around the country found the rates to be among the lowest.

Meanwhile, the costs are rising. On top of operating costs, the state is paying about $28 million a year in debt for the train until 2024, and will have to shell out $112 million in 2025 and 2026 in balloon payments. Taxpayers also are on the hook for nearly $493 million in infrastructure for the rail line. The Department of Transportation estimates the total debt repayment over 20 years, including principal and interest, works out to nearly $784 million.

"I don't know how we're going to deal with it in those (balloon payment) years," Transportation Secretary Tom Church said. "There's no silver bullet."
OK, yeah, that's wrong. The real costs are far, far higher. Maybe raise fairs to $100 for the 40 mile trip? WOuld that cover it?

The real question is who is going to be held responsible for this financial clusterflop? The utter incompetence of the officials involved leaves the taxpayers of the state holding the bag, potentially for years. Someone should be in prison. Follow the money. I will lay you odds that a campaign donor or crony of elected officials made an absolute killing off this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2015, 07:39 PM
 
3,617 posts, read 3,882,748 times
Reputation: 2295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
From the article: The average fare is $2.47, compared with the average trip length of 40.7 miles. Some time ago the IRS determined that the average operating cost for a car was >.50 a mile. If we simply charged train riders the same rate that drivers pay ($20 a trip), it sounds like the financial burden on the tax payer would be eliminated. Why would that be hard to do?


OK, yeah, that's wrong. The real costs are far, far higher. Maybe raise fairs to $100 for the 40 mile trip? WOuld that cover it?

The real question is who is going to be held responsible for this financial clusterflop? The utter incompetence of the officials involved leaves the taxpayers of the state holding the bag, potentially for years. Someone should be in prison. Follow the money. I will lay you odds that a campaign donor or crony of elected officials made an absolute killing off this.
Likely.

It's also a pretty big give-away to the riders. A 40 mile train trip for $2.47 is an insane deal. Maybe they are hoping the users and people who own nearby property vote based on gratitude for and desire to maintain it whereas more diffuse taxpayers elsewhere don't single-issue vote on it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:25 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top