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Old 05-14-2015, 12:06 PM
 
11,046 posts, read 5,266,686 times
Reputation: 5253

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
Poverty exist everywhere. There are much poorer societies than America. But only in U.S. poverty is considered a moral fault. That is also in strong contrast to basic Christian values. (For unknown reasons in U.S. homosexuality and abortion took that place to become the symbols of Christian struggle).


liberals make it that is a moral fault and a foundation problem when in fact poverty in the U.S.A. is more cultural and a personal decision and no politician and all the money in the world can change that from some people. There are exceptions like people having a medical, physical or mental issues that they need the government to take care of them but those are the exception and a very small % of society.


Education in America is FREE all the way to college for minorities and the low income people.....if you don't finish High School, don't have work ethic and don't have respect for authority then that is not the system's fault or the nation but your own and your parents that raised you that no government bureaucrat can solve with all the tax dollars in the world and a big welfare state.


Conservatives believe that you can help people without having a big welfare state. Families, friends and local communities have a far better effect on people than a big federal welfare state and for less money than the feds spend.....and when you help people you have to demand things in return from that person so they can get out of the hole or situation they are in.....you can't be helping people without expecting things from that person to do to better their lives......it doesn't work that way.

 
Old 05-14-2015, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,838 posts, read 26,236,305 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
liberals make it that is a moral fault and a foundation problem when in fact poverty in the U.S.A. is more cultural and a personal decision and no politician and all the money in the world can change that from some people. There are exceptions like people having a medical, physical or mental issues that they need the government to take care of them but those are the exception and a very small % of society.


Education in America is FREE all the way to college for minorities and the low income people.....if you don't finish High School, don't have work ethic and don't have respect for authority then that is not the system's fault or the nation but your own and your parents that raised you that no government bureaucrat can solve with all the tax dollars in the world and a big welfare state.


Conservatives believe that you can help people without having a big welfare state. Families, friends and local communities have a far better effect on people than a big federal welfare state and for less money than the feds spend.....and when you help people you have to demand things in return from that person so they can get out of the hole or situation they are in.....you can't be helping people without expecting things from that person to do to better their lives......it doesn't work that way.
100% opinion with no basis in fact, keep up the good work
 
Old 05-14-2015, 12:10 PM
 
11,046 posts, read 5,266,686 times
Reputation: 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
100% opinion with no basis in fact, keep up the good work


like they say in Latin countries...."METE MANO"....means go ahead and dig in and bring your "facts"
 
Old 05-14-2015, 12:11 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13679
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Sorry if my reference was not clear, I was talking about your 'claim' that welfare caused the fall of the Roman Empire and I think you knew that.I understand that a majority of the poor vote for democrats
Of course they do, they want to vote themselves more of someone else's money rather than earn their own and support themselves.
 
Old 05-14-2015, 12:16 PM
 
11,046 posts, read 5,266,686 times
Reputation: 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Sorry if my reference was not clear, I was talking about your 'claim' that welfare caused the fall of the Roman Empire and I think you knew that.I understand that a majority of the poor vote for democrats and I am surprised that any poor person would ever vote for a Republican..or for that matter why any person who might need medicare when they get old would vote Republican since part of the R platform is to turn Medicare into a voucher system

vouchers for public schools would help poor especially blacks.

Vouchers for medicare is actually a good idea......just like giving the option to the workers control their social security into private accounts so they can have a bigger return and more control than politicians in Washington just like they have a Chile.


why would any person vote for any of that, how silly of them......lets just keep letting politicians in Washington control everything and ignore the fact many programs are poorly managed and will go bankrupt in the future.


how silly of republicans giving the people other options.
 
Old 05-14-2015, 12:20 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13679
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
it was also given to the middle class
If so, enlarging the welfare class crushed Rome. We have the same problem here in the US, and it will end the same way...

1) Those who receive public assistance have a birth rate 3 times higher than those who don't. Stats and citations, here:
//www.city-data.com/forum/32045595-post217.html

2) Nearly half of all U.S. births are paid for by Medicaid (medical care public assistance program for the poor).
Medicaid Pays For Nearly Half of All Births in the United States | publichealth.gwu.edu

3) 70% of those who are born into poverty never even make it to the middle class.
Only 30% of those born poor ever make it to the middle class

What's the plan for paying to support the exponentially growing perpetually needy class? What happens when paying to support their ever-increasing numbers becomes so burdensome that it strains available resources? Hmmm...?

Rome, redux.
 
Old 05-14-2015, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,838 posts, read 26,236,305 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
vouchers for public schools would help poor especially blacks.

Vouchers for medicare is actually a good idea......just like giving the option to the workers control their social security into private accounts so they can have a bigger return and more control than politicians in Washington just like they have a Chile.


why would any person vote for any of that, how silly of them......lets just keep letting politicians in Washington control everything and ignore the fact many programs are poorly managed and will go bankrupt in the future.


how silly of republicans giving the people other options.
Vouchers for public schools? That's a new one. Public schools are free, right? The idea of a voucher system is to subsidize private school tuition. Sweden school choice: The country’s disastrous experiment with Milton Friedman and vouchers.


Vouchers for medicare? OH yeah that's a grand idea. Take a look at your Hero Paul Ryan's plan:
"Chairman Ryan proposes to replace Medicare's guarantee of health coverage with a premium-support voucher and raise the age of eligibility for Medicare from 65 to 67. Together, these changes would shift substantial costs to Medicare beneficiaries and (with the simultaneous repeal of health reform) leave many 65- and 66-year-olds without any health coverage. In areas where Medicare incurs relatively high costs, the amount of the premium-support payment would equal the cost of a relatively inexpensive private plan, and beneficiaries would have to pay higher premiums to participate in traditional Medicare. In areas with relatively low Medicare spending, beneficiaries who wanted to enroll in a private plan would face higher premiums or fewer benefits, or might find that no private plan was available."

Medicare in Ryan

yep..Republicans sure are looking out for the American people
 
Old 05-14-2015, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,838 posts, read 26,236,305 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
If so, enlarging the welfare class crushed Rome. We have the same problem here in the US, and it will end the same way...

1) Those who receive public assistance have a birth rate 3 times higher than those who don't. Stats and citations, here:
//www.city-data.com/forum/32045595-post217.html

2) Nearly half of all U.S. births are paid for by Medicaid (medical care public assistance program for the poor).
Medicaid Pays For Nearly Half of All Births in the United States | publichealth.gwu.edu

3) 70% of those who are born into poverty never even make it to the middle class.
Only 30% of those born poor ever make it to the middle class

What's the plan for paying to support the exponentially growing perpetually needy class? What happens when paying to support their ever-increasing numbers becomes so burdensome that it strains available resources? Hmmm...?

Rome, redux.
Offer a solution, a real one with some data to demonstrate that it might work. I'm not convinced that our current welfare system works, but if the option is to cut off all assistance for the poor I would rather stick with what we have.
 
Old 05-14-2015, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,707,495 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Facts are facts... 2/3 or more of those receiving means-tested social welfare benefits and 2/3 of the long-term unemployed are Democrats. They don't want to work and/or they provide too little value to employers to justify their continued employment.It's their mindset. It's just the way they are.
An unbiased survey will ask the same question in different ways.

Pew Research concluded the U.S. to be a bipartisan nation of beneficiaries.

Percentage of people who responded that they benefitted from entitlement programs at some point in life by political party:

Republican 10%
Democrat 22%
Independent 17%

Percentage of people who responded that they benefitted from entitlement programs at some point in their lives by ideology:

Conservative 17%
Moderate 17%
Liberal 17%
 
Old 05-14-2015, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,838 posts, read 26,236,305 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
An unbiased survey will ask the same question in different ways.

Pew Research concluded the U.S. to be a bipartisan nation of beneficiaries.

Percentage of people who responded that they benefitted from entitlement programs at some point in life by political party:

Republican 10%
Democrat 22%
Independent 17%

Percentage of people who responded that they benefitted from entitlement programs at some point in their lives by ideology:

Conservative 17%
Moderate 17%
Liberal 17%
wish I could rep you again
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