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Old 05-14-2015, 02:28 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
Reputation: 4130

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
We would be lucky if half actually benefits the greater good.

Leaving money in the pocket of individuals does all those things you think happens without the government taking a huge cut.
I think the bulk eventually benefits the greater good.

The part that does not, might be spent on damaging goods or business. Like tobacco, drugs, unhealthy food, and some may say war.

But most ends up into local businesses and then eventually to the rich.

The largest spending is Medicare. And Medicare helps me and 800,000 or so other small business docs, as well as thousands of hospitals and so many other HC related entities to prosper.

While at the same time Medicare is of course great for the millions of beneficiaries.
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Old 05-14-2015, 02:33 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,824,055 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I think the bulk eventually benefits the greater good.

The part that does not, might be spent on damaging goods or business. Like tobacco, drugs, unhealthy food, and some may say war.

But most ends up into local businesses and then eventually to the rich.

The largest spending is Medicare. And Medicare helps me and 800,000 or so other small business docs, as well as thousands of hospitals and so many other HC related entities prosper.

While at the same time Medicare is of course great for the millions of beneficiaries.
Do you really want to get into the waste and fraud in Medicare?
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Old 05-14-2015, 02:45 PM
 
13,511 posts, read 17,038,460 times
Reputation: 9691
What's funny about Fox News fans who think they are economics experts, is that they take these "man running a banana stand" anecdotes (not far form the McGovern story), and think that this somehow has anything to do with what goes on on Wall Street, where the prime beneficiaries of capital gains tax cuts do their work. So a guy has to shut his Inn because of government health and safety regulations and law suits.....the answer to this is cutting taxes for money made moving credit default swaps around. It's amazing how middle Americans making $40K a year somehow buy this garbage that Wall St sells them. If you cut capital gains tax, it means that investors and that apparatus that services them get richer. That's it. There is no automatic correlation to job growth in THE USA...maybe at one time there was, in the global economy, there is none. Trickle down is so 40 years ago.
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Old 05-14-2015, 02:54 PM
 
10,545 posts, read 13,587,085 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
What's funny about Fox News fans who think they are economics experts, is that they take these "man running a banana stand" anecdotes (not far form the McGovern story), and think that this somehow has anything to do with what goes on on Wall Street, where the prime beneficiaries of capital gains tax cuts do their work. So a guy has to shut his Inn because of government health and safety regulations and law suits.....the answer to this is cutting taxes for money made moving credit default swaps around. It's amazing how middle Americans making $40K a year somehow buy this garbage that Wall St sells them. If you cut capital gains tax, it means that investors and that apparatus that services them get richer. That's it. There is no automatic correlation to job growth in THE USA...maybe at one time there was, in the global economy, there is none. Trickle down is so 40 years ago.
It's amazing that you buy that it's only Wall St. people who invest.
Of course, there is not an automatic correlation, it's more complex than that. There is also no automatic correlation to taxes collected and people moving from poverty.
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Old 05-14-2015, 02:55 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Do you really want to get into the waste and fraud in Medicare?
Fraud and waste is never good, but the amount is minor in numbers compared to the total money and total benefits involved.
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Old 05-14-2015, 03:11 PM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,782,025 times
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The idea that economics is simple and the only reason that the left doesn't get it is because they're dumb or evil is insulting and absurd.

Some people on this board seriously need to grow up.
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Old 05-14-2015, 03:19 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,824,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Fraud and waste is never good, but the amount is minor in numbers compared to the total money and total benefits involved.
I wish you were right.
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Old 05-14-2015, 03:28 PM
 
13,511 posts, read 17,038,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
It's amazing that you buy that it's only Wall St. people who invest.
Of course, there is not an automatic correlation, it's more complex than that. There is also no automatic correlation to taxes collected and people moving from poverty.
I didn't say it's only Wall ST people who invest. I said the "prime beneficiaries. But you probably knew that already and think it's a clever argumentation technique to create strawmen.

The vast majority of money made through capital gains is made by a tiny, tiny percentage of people. The vast majority of people in this country...who have income... that income comes from work, not capital gains. If cutting capital gains does not create jobs..which it doesn't...then there's no point in it being the #1 (basically, the only..) bullet point in a political parties platform that is supposed to stimulate "job growth". Cutting capital gains is not going to stop the hemorrhaging of quality American jobs.

Someone having a $100K 401K plan doesn't change that fact, so before you go there.....don't. It's a fallacy. I know, next is "but pension pans are invested in the stock market also!!!" The record is skipping. Who do capital gains cuts MOSTLY benefit?

Also, 401K withdrawals are taxed as income anyway, so that shouldn't even be part of the equation.
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Old 05-14-2015, 03:45 PM
 
4,873 posts, read 3,603,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
The money doesn't go to the greater society, it goes to increase the power of government.

When politics are used to allocate resources, the resources all end up being allocated to politics. - P.J. O'Rourke
When corporations are used to allocate resources, the resources all end up being allocated to corporations. At least we get to vote on the politicians.
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Old 05-14-2015, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,231,957 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Demand absolutely factors into it, but so does the cost of doing business. If it costs more to be in business, the amount of demand required to make hiring make sense increases.

As for the "trickle down," it does happen but not at the rate or ratio "the left" would like. Remember the recession when so many lost their jobs? They lost them because the people and companies at the top were losing money. When do you think they got hired? ....when the companies were profitable.
Well, there is a "line" somewhere in the middle. There must be demand, and at the same time, businesses must be able to afford to operate. Where that line is... well that's what people argue about on both sides - to the extreme. I'll take the economic middle ground, where actual common sense lies.
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