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Old 05-18-2015, 09:58 AM
 
4,006 posts, read 6,040,241 times
Reputation: 3897

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
No, you didn't. Defense lawyers have to work to the best of their ability within the system. Filing the paperwork and calling it a day doesn't count.

If it doesn't, then what's the big deal?

If it's what it takes to keep sure the adversarial system still working, that pittance is well worth paying.

As for the victims, I rather doubt their heartache will go away once the perpetrator is dead. Not that it matters overly much, the justice system is not in the business of doling out revenge for the bereaved.

You work with what you have.

It's an incredibly dangerous path to walk down. Sharp defense lawyers is what keeps the state within bounds.

If defense attorneys start giving lip service to clients who are "obviously guilty", then the state will not be forced to do its due diligence. There is no lack of sloppy prosecution work that still put perfectly innocent people behind bars, because their lawyer couldn't be arsed to find the flaws in the state's arguments or procedures. Nor is there a lack of sloppy prosecution work that led to convictions being overturned and very dangerous individuals walking free.

You can't have an adversarial system if one or both sides feel free to do the job or not as they feel like. Well, not one that works, anyway. And the system is worth more than wosshisname's life.

The defense attorney and the perp both admitted guilt. What's there to appeal?

Unlike you, I don't have a bleeding heart of murders and terrorists. He's guilty. Case closed. Casket closed.

Personally, I hope he get's a little time in general population and some lifer sticks a knife in his neck a few times to save us all this appeals process BS.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:29 AM
 
2,842 posts, read 2,329,046 times
Reputation: 3386
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenniel View Post
The defense attorney and the perp both admitted guilt. What's there to appeal?

Unlike you, I don't have a bleeding heart of murders and terrorists. He's guilty. Case closed. Casket closed.

Personally, I hope he get's a little time in general population and some lifer sticks a knife in his neck a few times to save us all this appeals process BS.
Nobody has a bleeding heart for murderers and terrorists.

The appeals aren't based on the facts of the case. Whether or not he's guilty is not what they are looking at. The appeals are based on whether or not the trial court ruled in accordance with the law on issues of law during the trial.

For example, if the defense team wanted a particular piece of evidence kept out and the trial court judge allowed it in anyway. Taking that issue up on appeal simply allows another set of judges to review that decision and determine whether or not the trial court ruled in error according to the law. It's the final check and balance before the state can take someone's life.

As frustrating as it may appear sometimes, the mandatory appeals process for death penalty cases is really one of the better aspects of our judicial institution. That being said, it does take forever and I can understand why it upsets some people. But if were your life on the line, or someone you care about, I'm pretty sure you would want to ensure that the lawyers and the trial court followed the law throughout the trial.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,232 posts, read 27,611,062 times
Reputation: 16072
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenniel View Post
The defense attorney and the perp both admitted guilt. What's there to appeal?

Unlike you, I don't have a bleeding heart of murders and terrorists. He's guilty. Case closed. Casket closed.

Personally, I hope he get's a little time in general population and some lifer sticks a knife in his neck a few times to save us all this appeals process BS.
You might want to take a look at the death penalty appeals process

Death Penalty Appeals Process | Capital Punishment in Context

Personally,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UceGF3M56bE


but law is law. Emotion just has nothing to do with it.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:39 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,884,155 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenniel View Post
That may be, but it anyone going to object if they put up the most half-assed appeal in the history of our court system?
Yes. And they could be disbarred for doing so. It's a little thing called ethics.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:42 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,884,155 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenniel View Post
Again, the defense team, presumably, did their best and they lost the case. If they have a mandatory appeals process for federal death penalty cases, the defense team should do the very minimum required and the process should move forward with his execution.

Again, what American is going to shed a tear when this guy hits the dirt?
The minimum requirement is the lawyer doing his absolute best and exploring every avenue to overturn a death sentence. That's the MINIMUM.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:54 AM
 
9,879 posts, read 8,020,347 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenniel View Post

But, once a defense team loses, admits they lost, why can't a defense lawyer just admit their client lost and move on?
It has nothing to do with carrying out justice in a timely manner but more to do with:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

This link will give you a good idea of what they get paid on these "death sentence cases"
They are killing the American taxpayer financially and it has to STOP!

The report estimates that between 1982-1997 the extra cost of capital trials was $1.6 billion.

" Washington has carried out five executions since reinstatement, implying a cost of $24 million per execution."

California -
1.94 billion--Pre-Trial and Trial Costs
$925 million--Automatic Appeals and State Habeas Corpus Petitions
$775 million--Federal Habeas Corpus Appeals

Maryland -
"The study estimates that the average cost to Maryland taxpayers for reaching a single death sentence is $3 million"

Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center
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Old 05-18-2015, 11:48 AM
 
2,345 posts, read 1,670,731 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
It has nothing to do with carrying out justice in a timely manner but more to do with:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

This link will give you a good idea of what they get paid on these "death sentence cases"
They are killing the American taxpayer financially and it has to STOP!

The report estimates that between 1982-1997 the extra cost of capital trials was $1.6 billion.

" Washington has carried out five executions since reinstatement, implying a cost of $24 million per execution."

California -
1.94 billion--Pre-Trial and Trial Costs
$925 million--Automatic Appeals and State Habeas Corpus Petitions
$775 million--Federal Habeas Corpus Appeals

Maryland -
"The study estimates that the average cost to Maryland taxpayers for reaching a single death sentence is $3 million"

Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center
Aside from Ms Robin's Marijuana stance, this lil Birdy Nails it, Again.

Exactly the brutal truth !!

BTW, you know very few in authority CARE. #FatCatsFeastOffusLittleBirds
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Old 05-18-2015, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,201 posts, read 19,215,171 times
Reputation: 38267
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadSpeak View Post
Just because a d.a. might not like the person they are defending does not mean they shouldn't do their job too the best of their abilities. Also I believe if found guilty of negligence the lawyer could be censured or disbarred.
DAs don't defend people - that stands for District Attorney. They represent the government and are the ones who prosecute the case. But for defense attorneys (sometimes a PD - public defender), yes, they have to do the job to the best of their ability, including any appeals.
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Old 05-18-2015, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,201 posts, read 19,215,171 times
Reputation: 38267
Quote:
Originally Posted by ORION83 View Post
I ask the same question when I hear Hillary Clinton laughing about the victim her rapist client raped.
She laughed when mentioning the validity of polygraphs given that the accused passed one in that case. Not at the victim.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,791,864 times
Reputation: 24863
One of the reasons I am not and never will be a policeman is that clown would have had to be carried out of the boat directly to the Coroner's office.

Now that he has been found guilty and will probably lose any appeals it is time to look up some old documents and build a gallows in Copley Square. Then get a rope and execute the prisoner in public. Simple and gets the job done. It also graphically shows the public what their legal system decreed.
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