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That's a very good post on the issue and sums it up nicely.
We Native Americans have forgiven the transgressions of the Euros against our peoples, in the making of America. We enlist in the military at 4 times the rate of whites and are considered very patriotic by all.
Never forget that No one sacrificed more, to make America what it is today than the American Indian and the Black man. You took all our land, our women and did your best to exterminate us as national policy under A. Jackson. You took the freedom away from the black man and used his labor to shape the industrial future of the nation and then freed him with nothing.
Without us, you would have no nation.
What we will not forgive is the efforts of white society to rewrite history, so that it reflects a white fantasy of the glorious, benevolent actions of the white race towards Blacks and NDNs to shape this nation and the denial of the sacrifices of the other races to make it so.
Until the white man learns to respect the Native American and the Black man for what they have given you to shape this nation, there will always be mutual disrespect in return.
I have just been released from the hospital Saturday, after a long, painful surgical procedure on my vascular system. I'm spending most my time highly drugged and in bed. If you intend to pick a fight with me over my above response to this thread, you're out of luck, as I won't be back on board for at least another week, when I'm better. Besides, I'm not really up for the predictable hate, bigotry and evil I know will be forthcoming.
I just had to dial in with my thoughts on this one thread.
Never forget that No one sacrificed more, to make America what it is today than the American Indian and the Black man. You took all our land, our women and did your best to exterminate us as national policy under A. Jackson. You took the freedom away from the black man and used his labor to shape the industrial future of the nation and then freed him with nothing.
Without us, you would have no nation.
Let me say, I have great appreciation for the Native-Americans(and I am part Cherokee). But you are vastly overstating your case.
It isn't true that without the Indians or the "black man" that you would have no nation. Had the Native-Americans never existed at all, there would still be a nation. And had there never been slavery in America at all, there would still be a nation(arguably a better one).
Slavery was used to rapidly grow the economies of British colonies(IE economic growth/largest economy in the world, that we still talk about today), because there was a perpetual shortage of labor for the vast quantities of what was considered "open land". Slavery ultimately died as the demand for agricultural labor declined, especially through the large-scale immigration of Europeans in the 1840's and 1850's(IE the Irish potato famine).
Lincoln was fighting to "prevent the spread of slavery" to the new territories in the West. Why? Because white Americans and white immigrants wanted those lands(IE the later homestead acts), and felt that slavery would undermine the white man's wage. And that slavery created a sort of "landed aristocracy". Where huge slave plantations would come in and buy up almost all of the land, and leave the poor white man with no land, and thus no political power(at that time only property owners could vote).
Had there never been slavery, there either would have been more immigration, or there just would have been slower economic growth. But the outcome really wouldn't have been different. The Revolutionary War was prosecuted primarily by white farmers in Western Massachusetts and Pennsylvania. Long before America really even had any industry.
Quote:
What we will not forgive is the efforts of white society to rewrite history, so that it reflects a white fantasy of the glorious, benevolent actions of the white race towards Blacks and NDNs to shape this nation and the denial of the sacrifices of the other races to make it so.
Until the white man learns to respect the Native American and the Black man for what they have given you to shape this nation, there will always be mutual disrespect in return.
I agree that white people have rewritten history. But you aren't doing history much justice either. In regards to slavery and the Indians, the root of the problem has to do with the founding of this nation. It was based on "enlightenment" principles and "natural rights". It was founded on the basis that "All men are created equal", and have a right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Which is derived from John Locke's Life, Liberty, and Property.
The existence of slavery, and the poor treatment of the natives, is pretty clear proof that the entire history of the benevolence of America, and its belief in freedom, is a complete myth. In reality, America has largely just been a continuation of our British roots. And America nearly completely adopted the "British system" of government. And the world today is really just an extension of the "Anglo-American" economic and military domination of the world.
What we need to understand, is that the relative "success" of America(IE military and economic domination of the world). Is really not the outcome of NDN's and ex-slaves. It is the outcome of industrialization and finance-capitalism. Both of which may have made us richer, but both have made us less free.
To the extent that blacks and NDN's have been useful to the US government. It is because their poverty sends them into desperation, which often leads them to join the military. And the US government has continuously used them as cannon fodder, in American wars for American imperialism/hegemony. And that really goes all the way back to the Civil War. Where Lincoln loved to use blacks as cannon fodder in the Civil War, as the war became increasingly less popular in the North(he nearly lost reelection in 1864). And goes back even further for Indians(who were manipulated and pitted against each other by European powers and for the benefit of the Europeans).
The fact that a Native-American is a "patriot", is a joke. He must be one of the most ignorant people in the entire country. The only reason any Indian should care one iota for the US government. Is because of the benefits the US government pays out, in things such as healthcare, and from the proceeds of Indian Casinos. But In my view, these things have actually done more harm than good for the Native-American.
Originally Posted by mohawkx That's a very good post on the issue and sums it up nicely.
We Native Americans have forgiven the transgressions of the Euros against our peoples, in the making of America. We enlist in the military at 4 times the rate of whites and are considered very patriotic by all.
Never forget that No one sacrificed more, to make America what it is today than the American Indian and the Black man. You took all our land, our women and did your best to exterminate us as national policy under A. Jackson. You took the freedom away from the black man and used his labor to shape the industrial future of the nation and then freed him with nothing.
Without us, you would have no nation.
What we will not forgive is the efforts of white society to rewrite history, so that it reflects a white fantasy of the glorious, benevolent actions of the white race towards Blacks and NDNs to shape this nation and the denial of the sacrifices of the other races to make it so.
Until the white man learns to respect the Native American and the Black man for what they have given you to shape this nation, there will always be mutual disrespect in return.
I have just been released from the hospital Saturday, after a long, painful surgical procedure on my vascular system. I'm spending most my time highly drugged and in bed. If you intend to pick a fight with me over my above response to this thread, you're out of luck, as I won't be back on board for at least another week, when I'm better. Besides, I'm not really up for the predictable hate, bigotry and evil I know will be forthcoming.
I just had to dial in with my thoughts on this one thread.
Peace,
Mohawk
what a bunch of B.S.........Africans have had their continent for centuries and it looks NOTHING like the U.S.A.. Natives have lived in the Americas for centuries and it looked NOTHING like the U.S.A. Today, they have their lands and choose to live in poverty with the highest % of alcoholics and drug abusers.
I don't see 1 African-American renouncing their U.S. Citizenship to return and live in Africa to eat flies and dirt.
If Africans in the U.S.A built this country as we know it today, why can't they do it in their mother countries in Africa? they had centuries head start.
You really want to know what the U.S.A would look like today if Africans and Natives would have been in charge instead of the more advance Europeans?......Look at Africa and look at Latin countries like Bolivia and Guatemala and some parts of Mexico with a large % of native population.......poor and uneducated and it reflects in their economy.
Europeans were the more advanced civilization compare to tribes from Africa and Natives....they are the ones that built America and brought the new age revolution.
The U.S.A didn't become a SUPERPOWER in the economy and technology and military by a few black slaves picking up cotton in the south until 1865 while the rest of the WHITE EUROPEANS sat down and did nothing.
Blacks were always a minority in the U.S.A....they were less than 7% of the population and most were not educated when the U.S.A. became a economic force in the world.......to say that 7% built the U.S.A on manual labor jobs while ignoring the great accomplishments of the Europeans immigrants in America doesn't know much about history and economy.
To be fair: the American Indian tribes did the same things to each over, even before 1492. Had the white man really done things "Indian way"; there'd probably be NO Cherokee, Mohawk, Apache, and so on alive in 2015. Some of the AI nations played for keeps like Comanche; about the only thing that kept them from winning their wars was them NOT having rifles till maybe 150 years ago.
I thought it was the whites who taught the Indians about raping and scalping!!!!
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