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You make a mess, you clean it up. Unfortunately, going to war was not a choice any of us are given as a nation. Our government does not represent "we the people". The actions of our elected officials are a poor representation of what it means to be an American.
THE Iraqi military is around 230,000, ISIS is around 30,000, if they wanted to defeat them they could very easily. Maliki created a fractious government rather than a democracy, Sunni's do not want to fight other Sunni's. same for Shiites. You have to wonder what it takes for them defend their country and put religious differences aside.
This is having an enormous impact to innocent people in Syria and Iraq not to mention the displaced refugees destabilizing other countries in the ME and Europe.
The ungrateful bastards have never thanked us for invading and bombing the crap out their country and for building fine institutions like the Abu Ghraib and Camp Bucca terrorist recruitment centers. To Hell with them!.
Yea yea. Whatever. I didn't agree with the invasion, but here we are. They won't fight, despite all the toys we left, yes, to Hell with them. Both ISIS and the Iraqis. Wherever we find US equipment, we blow it up. Its either nobody vets the stuff, or ISIS does, and all the bleeding , ha d wringing and weeping over what the US did there isn't going to change that. So, you're saying what, exactly? Just let ISIS have all that nifty firepower because the US was the original black hat?
ISIS will have to be stopped, sooner or later. Do you believe we should let the arm up, with our gear, first? So when might O decides to re commit ground troops, they are facing our own weapons, en masse? Right, wrong or indifferent, we are committed to the mess. It can't be allowed to continue like this. If there wasn't so much high tech hardware over their, that the Iraqis just can't wait to give to ISIS, I'd say leave it be. But it isn't going to work out that way. Obamas going to re commit, and send our people into a meat grinder. Its not about GBE politics of the war anymore. It never was, for me. I want OUR people on the high ground , if they're going to be sent there.
I don't cafe about the evils of the "military industrial complex" a d what a bunch of flakes , sitting around in drum circles pretending to be a reincarnation of Berkeley and the Height, during the 60s think. I care about whats going to happen to OUR people , when Obama blunders back in there. Its going to happen. So, again, to Hell with the Iraqis and all the hand wringing make love not war wannabes. All I care about is the US soldiers that are going to get ground into sausage by our own weapons.
I don't know how much we can blame the Iraqis in these cases. The US has developed a pattern of cut-and-run over a long period. That was one reason why Saddam underestimated the situation in 2003. He saw that we had left Lebanon after 1984, split from Somalia after the action there under HW Bush and Clinton, hung the Kurds out to dry after trying to foment a Kurdish rebellion, and so on.
Then we split Iraq in 2011, and in 2015 we expect these people to show fortitude and courage against ISIS, the most horrific and brutal product of humankind since the Nazis? We simply launch some ordnance from the skies, and they're supposed to handle ISIS on the ground. I would probably be thinking 'thanks but no thanks' as well.
There's a big difference in getting extracted under orders and flying the white flag. Should have shot more of those mofos on the way out with a Dillon minigun to prove that point!
THE Iraqi military is around 230,000, ISIS is around 30,000, if they wanted to defeat them they could very easily. Maliki created a fractious government rather than a democracy, Sunni's do not want to fight other Sunni's. same for Shiites. You have to wonder what it takes for them defend their country and put religious differences aside.
The problem here is that they don't see "their country" in the same way that you might see your country.
Iraq is an artificial state, and the people there don't really see themselves as countrymen. They are basically foreigners living in the same territory, under a central government that only one sect actually approves of.
To put it in context, imagine if the United States suddenly was forced to be in the same country as China and Russia.
To explain some numbers, lets understand that Iraq is 10% Kurd, 65% Shia, and 25% Sunni. Therefore, democracy in Iraq is simply dominated by Shia. Even if the Sunnis and Kurds banded together, they are still outnumbered nearly 2 to 1.
The same goes for China/Russia/America. If we were forced together as a single country. The Chinese would simply have all the power, and even if America and Russia banded together, they would still be outnumbered more than 2 to 1.
The Sunnis and Kurds basically have no interest in being in the same country as the Shia, in the same way that Americans and Russians have no interest in being in the same country as China(or each other for that matter).
To imagine these people "need to come together for the sake of their country". There really is no country. The problem is, the majority Shia, who hold all the power, have no interest in breaking the country up. Because as everyone knows, the majority never agrees to a split, and "might makes right". Just ask the Native-Americans.
You are right, we SHOULDN'T fight. But we will, because ISIS is a danger to international finance/trade. And the bankers and Wall Street call the shots, not us. And if they see resistance, then they will do everything in their power to control the media and bombard us with endless propaganda of why ISIS is dangerous and will "kill us all" if they aren't stopped. While completely ignoring the fact that not only is ISIS a small group in Iraq. But that there are many countries in the Middle-East. And some of the largest militaries in the world are actually touching Iraq.
In fact, Saudi Arabia spends the third-most money on its military in the world. Saudi Arabia spends more on its military every year than Russia or Britain. And one of the largest Armies in the world is right next door in Turkey. Yet, America will get involved, just as they always do. And 2016 can't come fast enough, they need another Republican warmonger in charge.
The problem here is that they don't see "their country" in the same way that you might see your country.
Iraq is an artificial state, and the people there don't really see themselves as countrymen. They are basically foreigners living in the same territory, under a central government that only one sect actually approves of.
Bingo.
*Any* human being will fight to the death, given something to fight for.
Furthering US hegemony? A chaotic political situation where leaders cannot be trusted? Why should they fight? No, they're going to take their military pay, as much as they can get, take their guns and go home to feed and defend their families.
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