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Old 05-29-2015, 01:45 PM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,984,830 times
Reputation: 7502

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Nope. Bad idea.
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Old 05-29-2015, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,883,903 times
Reputation: 11259
Let the free market punish single parenting---stop subsidizing it.
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Old 05-29-2015, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,202,347 times
Reputation: 9895
What about when the mother/father is single, but it was not their choice to be so?
Say mom/dad walked out or divorced the other parent. Should the parent that did not want to be left or divorced also lose their child?
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Old 05-29-2015, 01:52 PM
 
35,095 posts, read 51,226,239 times
Reputation: 62668
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post
I consider myself a conservative libertarian, meaning that I hold conservative views as a person but mostly respect others rights to do as they please as long as they aren't shielded artificially from whatever negative effects their actions have.

However, when it comes to the issue of children I admit that I am more conservative than I am libertarian. The reason for this is that when a person has a child their actions are no longer only their concern, and thus I don't feel libertarian logic holds up as well anymore. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the state should force parents to teach only some values to their children and not others or anything like that, but I don't disagree with (all) the various laws that exist to protect children.

One of the biggest beefs I have with modern society is the utterly broken family structures that are becoming more and more common in the western world. The traditional family (2 parents, 1 or more child) is falling out of style in favor of more socially destructive lifestyles.

Of course, one could blame this on government in many cases. Child benefits for example are a government program, and they make it easier for people to not dedicate to their life choices and instead just leave and take their kids with them because they know the taxpayer will take care of their kids. In many cases however single parenting appears to simply be the result of selfishness and bad ethic on the behalf of the parent or parents.

I should probably explain it in more detail why I think single parenting is bad in the first place.

So basically there are 3 major reasons for why a child should be raised by both parents and not only 1:

-------------------------------------
-A more secure fiscal future.

2 people generate more wealth than 1. This is not hard to understand. When you couple that with the fact that raising a child is a lot of work which may negatively affect the ability of the single parent to earn more money this only becomes even more true. Because of this, a single parent is less likely to be able to secure a more bright future for his child and do such things as starting a saving which then later could be used to help the child pay for education once it's grown up, just to name one example.

-A stable life.

A stable and a secure traditional 2 parent family insures that the child grows up in a stable and a predictable world. A single parent all the while may end up dragging the child from one life spot to another with there being very little certain about what the future may hold.

-More time spent with the parents.

Raising a child isn't a 1 person job. It is not realistic for most people to both earn a living and spend enough time with the child. For this reason a single parent is much more likely to neglect a child's emotional needs than a traditional family is.
-------------------------------------

I just can't stand the extremely selfish and self-centered nature of many single parents. They claim that how they choose to live is the concern of nobody else, and normally I would agree. But I just don't get it how they can actually believe this when they have a child to take care of. They talk like their kids are just some kind of property who's responsibility it is to just fallow their owners wherever they go, instead of being individuals with their own mental and fiscal needs. These are people, who in my opinion, just blatantly care more about themselves and what they themselves want in life, than they care about creating a good and a stable existence for their children. I would not go as far as claiming they are all horrible people, but at the very least they are very childish, immature, and selfish.

I do understand that some single parents are single because they got screwed and ended up with abusive partners, and that there are others who ended up that way simply by being dumb (though I am not sure how great of an excuse that is, really). But single parenting now appears to be a common lifestyle rather than just some exception to the rule, and it's contributing to the slow destruction of western society by enforcing the ever selfish and hyper-individualist nature of modern western values.

So, I suggest a radical solution to this problem: Just make single parenting illegal.

The law would work as is described:

-Only a married couple may be allowed to raise a child. This marriage does not need to between a man and a women, but it must between 2 people.

-Singles may not adopt any children.

-Any children born outside of marriage are to be taken and put into adoption homes where they are to be given to more responsible, married couples. An exception may be given if the child is born in a relationship between 2 people if they get married within some X amount of time after the fact.

-After a married couple has given birth to a child, they are made to accept the huge responsibility that comes with creating a new life, by being made the permanent legal guardians of that child, and are obligated to show it the needed amount of love and care. For this reason, no married couple can legally divorce as long as there exists a minor within their family. This restriction is lifted once any children resulting from the marriage has reached the legal age of adulthood. An exception may be given in cases of domestic abuse, or if one partner dies by natural or unnatural causes. Should the parents or a parent refuse to accept this responsibility, they are to be charged with child neglect and punished accordingly. If only 1 member of the married couple refuses to take responsibility then the other is given custody of the child, otherwise both are charged and the child given to an adoption home.

Is it radical? Yes. But I believe that it's something that we need in order to counter the large levels of childishness and general hatred lots of people have towards the idea that they should actually take responsibility towards their children.

Thoughts?

You should keep your nose out of other's bedrooms and vagina's.
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Old 05-29-2015, 01:52 PM
 
45,214 posts, read 26,427,822 times
Reputation: 24966
No, it just shouldnt be subsidized.

And stop co-opting the libertarian label. You are anything but.
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Old 05-29-2015, 01:52 PM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,336,692 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post
I consider myself a conservative libertarian, meaning that I hold conservative views as a person but mostly respect others rights to do as they please as long as they aren't shielded artificially from whatever negative effects their actions have.

However, when it comes to the issue of children I admit that I am more conservative than I am libertarian. The reason for this is that when a person has a child their actions are no longer only their concern, and thus I don't feel libertarian logic holds up as well anymore. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the state should force parents to teach only some values to their children and not others or anything like that, but I don't disagree with (all) the various laws that exist to protect children.

One of the biggest beefs I have with modern society is the utterly broken family structures that are becoming more and more common in the western world. The traditional family (2 parents, 1 or more child) is falling out of style in favor of more socially destructive lifestyles.

Of course, one could blame this on government in many cases. Child benefits for example are a government program, and they make it easier for people to not dedicate to their life choices and instead just leave and take their kids with them because they know the taxpayer will take care of their kids. In many cases however single parenting appears to simply be the result of selfishness and bad ethic on the behalf of the parent or parents.

I should probably explain it in more detail why I think single parenting is bad in the first place.

So basically there are 3 major reasons for why a child should be raised by both parents and not only 1:

-------------------------------------
-A more secure fiscal future.

2 people generate more wealth than 1. This is not hard to understand. When you couple that with the fact that raising a child is a lot of work which may negatively affect the ability of the single parent to earn more money this only becomes even more true. Because of this, a single parent is less likely to be able to secure a more bright future for his child and do such things as starting a saving which then later could be used to help the child pay for education once it's grown up, just to name one example.

-A stable life.

A stable and a secure traditional 2 parent family insures that the child grows up in a stable and a predictable world. A single parent all the while may end up dragging the child from one life spot to another with there being very little certain about what the future may hold.

-More time spent with the parents.

Raising a child isn't a 1 person job. It is not realistic for most people to both earn a living and spend enough time with the child. For this reason a single parent is much more likely to neglect a child's emotional needs than a traditional family is.
-------------------------------------

I just can't stand the extremely selfish and self-centered nature of many single parents. They claim that how they choose to live is the concern of nobody else, and normally I would agree. But I just don't get it how they can actually believe this when they have a child to take care of. They talk like their kids are just some kind of property who's responsibility it is to just fallow their owners wherever they go, instead of being individuals with their own mental and fiscal needs. These are people, who in my opinion, just blatantly care more about themselves and what they themselves want in life, than they care about creating a good and a stable existence for their children. I would not go as far as claiming they are all horrible people, but at the very least they are very childish, immature, and selfish.

I do understand that some single parents are single because they got screwed and ended up with abusive partners, and that there are others who ended up that way simply by being dumb (though I am not sure how great of an excuse that is, really). But single parenting now appears to be a common lifestyle rather than just some exception to the rule, and it's contributing to the slow destruction of western society by enforcing the ever selfish and hyper-individualist nature of modern western values.

So, I suggest a radical solution to this problem: Just make single parenting illegal.

The law would work as is described:

-Only a married couple may be allowed to raise a child. This marriage does not need to between a man and a women, but it must between 2 people.

-Singles may not adopt any children.

-Any children born outside of marriage are to be taken and put into adoption homes where they are to be given to more responsible, married couples. An exception may be given if the child is born in a relationship between 2 people if they get married within some X amount of time after the fact.

-After a married couple has given birth to a child, they are made to accept the huge responsibility that comes with creating a new life, by being made the permanent legal guardians of that child, and are obligated to show it the needed amount of love and care. For this reason, no married couple can legally divorce as long as there exists a minor within their family. This restriction is lifted once any children resulting from the marriage has reached the legal age of adulthood. An exception may be given in cases of domestic abuse, or if one partner dies by natural or unnatural causes. Should the parents or a parent refuse to accept this responsibility, they are to be charged with child neglect and punished accordingly. If only 1 member of the married couple refuses to take responsibility then the other is given custody of the child, otherwise both are charged and the child given to an adoption home.


Is it radical? Yes. But I believe that it's something that we need in order to counter the large levels of childishness and general hatred lots of people have towards the idea that they should actually take responsibility towards their children.

Thoughts?
I think your proposition is insane.

Last edited by ray1945; 05-29-2015 at 02:06 PM..
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Old 05-29-2015, 01:57 PM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,277,553 times
Reputation: 5565
Dumb idea.
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Old 05-29-2015, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,076 posts, read 51,213,988 times
Reputation: 28317
Two of the last three presidents of the US were raised by single moms. It must have something going for it.
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Old 05-29-2015, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,214 posts, read 22,354,404 times
Reputation: 23853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
Making this proposal shows that you are in no way, shape, or form a Libertarian.

Raising children in a single parent household is a travesty. Sure, some kids manage to turn out OK despite the significant odds against them. But the statistics are very bleak showing a very strong correlation between being raised in a single parent household and poor outcomes for the children. That said, making it illegal is not the solution.

Dave
It might be a travesty, but fewer and fewer couples with children are marrying these days. At the same the same time, our divorce rate is now at 50%.

When these factors are combined, what comes out is there are increasingly more single parents raising kids, and the number of single parents will be rising for many years to come.

Attempting to make single parenthood illegal is ridiculous- that would be far too large an encroachment on our liberties to ever become a law. And such a law is more dangerous to our freedom than anything.

The OP would be better off to accept the facts that our society is changing, and start exploring ways that ensure the children of single parents don't get left behind in some way or other than to curse and rail against their parents.
By huge numbers, single parents are employed, taxpayers, and as responsible as citizens as any tow-parent family. Many are doing quite will financially as well. And most single parents have plenty of support from their former partners. Men are more active than ever now in their children's upbringings, and more single fathers are raising their kids alone than ever before. Single women traditionally have always been more active in ensuring their child grows up to become a well-adjusted adult, and this too, is stronger than ever at all economic levels.

I would like some verification that single parents equate with poor outcomes for their kids. While that may be true in some instances, it certainly is not in others.

We will always have poor parents, and we will always have kids who turn out poorly, even when they come from the best families. But trying to lump a very complicated bunch of situations into one big pile accomplishes nothing of value to anyone.
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Old 05-29-2015, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,891,307 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post
I consider myself a conservative libertarian, meaning that I hold conservative views as a person but mostly respect others rights to do as they please as long as they aren't shielded artificially from whatever negative effects their actions have.

However, when it comes to the issue of children I admit that I am more conservative than I am libertarian. The reason for this is that when a person has a child their actions are no longer only their concern, and thus I don't feel libertarian logic holds up as well anymore. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the state should force parents to teach only some values to their children and not others or anything like that, but I don't disagree with (all) the various laws that exist to protect children.

One of the biggest beefs I have with modern society is the utterly broken family structures that are becoming more and more common in the western world. The traditional family (2 parents, 1 or more child) is falling out of style in favor of more socially destructive lifestyles.

Of course, one could blame this on government in many cases. Child benefits for example are a government program, and they make it easier for people to not dedicate to their life choices and instead just leave and take their kids with them because they know the taxpayer will take care of their kids. In many cases however single parenting appears to simply be the result of selfishness and bad ethic on the behalf of the parent or parents.

I should probably explain it in more detail why I think single parenting is bad in the first place.

So basically there are 3 major reasons for why a child should be raised by both parents and not only 1:

-------------------------------------
-A more secure fiscal future.

2 people generate more wealth than 1. This is not hard to understand. When you couple that with the fact that raising a child is a lot of work which may negatively affect the ability of the single parent to earn more money this only becomes even more true. Because of this, a single parent is less likely to be able to secure a more bright future for his child and do such things as starting a saving which then later could be used to help the child pay for education once it's grown up, just to name one example.

-A stable life.

A stable and a secure traditional 2 parent family insures that the child grows up in a stable and a predictable world. A single parent all the while may end up dragging the child from one life spot to another with there being very little certain about what the future may hold.

-More time spent with the parents.

Raising a child isn't a 1 person job. It is not realistic for most people to both earn a living and spend enough time with the child. For this reason a single parent is much more likely to neglect a child's emotional needs than a traditional family is.
-------------------------------------

I just can't stand the extremely selfish and self-centered nature of many single parents. They claim that how they choose to live is the concern of nobody else, and normally I would agree. But I just don't get it how they can actually believe this when they have a child to take care of. They talk like their kids are just some kind of property who's responsibility it is to just fallow their owners wherever they go, instead of being individuals with their own mental and fiscal needs. These are people, who in my opinion, just blatantly care more about themselves and what they themselves want in life, than they care about creating a good and a stable existence for their children. I would not go as far as claiming they are all horrible people, but at the very least they are very childish, immature, and selfish.

I do understand that some single parents are single because they got screwed and ended up with abusive partners, and that there are others who ended up that way simply by being dumb (though I am not sure how great of an excuse that is, really). But single parenting now appears to be a common lifestyle rather than just some exception to the rule, and it's contributing to the slow destruction of western society by enforcing the ever selfish and hyper-individualist nature of modern western values.

So, I suggest a radical solution to this problem: Just make single parenting illegal.

The law would work as is described:

-Only a married couple may be allowed to raise a child. This marriage does not need to between a man and a women, but it must between 2 people.

-Singles may not adopt any children.

-Any children born outside of marriage are to be taken and put into adoption homes where they are to be given to more responsible, married couples. An exception may be given if the child is born in a relationship between 2 people if they get married within some X amount of time after the fact.

-After a married couple has given birth to a child, they are made to accept the huge responsibility that comes with creating a new life, by being made the permanent legal guardians of that child, and are obligated to show it the needed amount of love and care. For this reason, no married couple can legally divorce as long as there exists a minor within their family. This restriction is lifted once any children resulting from the marriage has reached the legal age of adulthood. An exception may be given in cases of domestic abuse, or if one partner dies by natural or unnatural causes. Should the parents or a parent refuse to accept this responsibility, they are to be charged with child neglect and punished accordingly. If only 1 member of the married couple refuses to take responsibility then the other is given custody of the child, otherwise both are charged and the child given to an adoption home.


Is it radical? Yes. But I believe that it's something that we need in order to counter the large levels of childishness and general hatred lots of people have towards the idea that they should actually take responsibility towards their children.

Thoughts?


Have T-shirts printed up that read
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

And you are halfway there. You want Big Brother to raise our children even more than they are? They have implemented Common Core and K-20. CPS can break can go to most homes and break up families for suspicion. They don't need solid evidence.

Some people can't leave well enough alone.
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