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I love how people make their arguments by jumping on a single datapoint and pretending not to see the big picture. So let's spell it out for you anyway.
The Tesla Roadster which came out first is a 100K car.
The Model S is a $65K
The Model 3 which is due to ship in a year is targeted at $35K.
Are you really so dense as to not see the trend here?
Meanwhile the initial investment to Nissan produced the best selling EV on the market right off the bat. The trend here is that other car companies will produce the EVs better and cheaper without having to put potential buyers on a wait list. Plus buyers would get a better deal on a trade in at the dealership.
These other car companies also don't need to hemorrhage money, live off carbon credits and hype up stock.
The CEO of Nissan said that the push for EVs is a mandate the govt wants so there's mo stoping it but all Teska did was help the EVs like the Leaf gain market acceptance.
If the goal was to open the market for EVs then it's done but it could've probably been done a lot wiser than giving it to tesla motors. The govt could've demanded a stock option to recover any losses if Tesla were to flail, which it certainly seems to be, and probably will once the flood gates open on the cheaper EV market.
And Musk said he's unveiling the model 3 in 2017. That's great! But can he keep up with demand producing so little and keep his word on his absurd claims of producing over a million cars by 2025? Tesla is a specialty luxury firm that lack the capabilities to produce half a million cars. It will not keep up with the big boys. If Tesla cannot earn profit on its existing luxury cars, how will it do so, selling something for HALF the price?
I just don't believe the hype of this company.
Last edited by radiolibre99; 06-03-2015 at 11:50 AM..
As a progressive lefty type I'm shocked at the hypocrisy by liberals, but then again I'm not. They're conventional yuppie types that support Musk and tend to think the ends justify the means so he's a lesser of two evils kinda guy. They fall for the hip modern, green and "revolutionary" hype.
I have a Tshirt idea.
"Green is the new stupid"
Im really conservative but very much for conservation. but the insanity I see coming from the "greens" just drives me batty.
It looks like it is beat on the liberals again. Mean while all those GOP supporters and Reps. are making billions because of Tax credits and subsidies (Koch, Bachmann and others.)
Meanwhile the initial investment to Nissan produced the best selling EV on the market right off the bat.
Your information is out of date. The Leaf is now #2 in US sales behind the Tesla now in 2015.
Quote:
The trend here is that other car companies will produce the EVs better and cheaper without having to put potential buyers on a wait list.
Better, LOL!!! What a bunch of baloney. The Leaf is a joke which get 50 miles on a charge. 50 miles!! Teslas go 200 miles!! And they have since their very first model.
The major car companies are dipping their toes into electric cars while Tesla is inventing a whole new technologies for electric cars. Their motors, controllers and especially batteries a competely new fresh designs. Tesla is a Silicon Valley startup representing some of the best examples of American engineering. You folks wanting to back the Japanese auto industry or the big three American tax-payer-money suckers ought to be ashamed of yourself.
You wait. Tesla technologies will end up being licensed by many companies, many of whom will probably buy Tesla batteries outright, once that new plant kicks in.
Quote:
These other car companies also don't need to hemorrhage money, live off carbon credits and hype up stock.
The CEO of Nissan said that the push for EVs is a mandate the govt wants so there's mo stoping it but all Teska did was help the EVs like the Leaf gain market acceptance.
Japan gives tons more money to its high-tech companies than does the US. Careful what you ask for. Your last statement is nonsense seeing how Tesla has already surpassed the Leaf in the US. When the model 3 comes out, those Leaf drivers are going to be lining up to get them. Of course, half of them will be parked on the sides of the road when they run out of juice before they get there.
Quote:
If the goal was to open the market for EVs then it's done but it could've probably been done a lot wiser than giving it to tesla motors. The govt could've demanded a stock option to recover any losses if Tesla were to flail, which it certainly seems to be, and probably will once the flood gates open on the cheaper EV market.
Tesla is the quintessential American high-tech startup whose disruptive technologies are nothing short of a revolution. No auto maker in the world is a laser-focus on electric vehicles like Tesla. None, nothing, nada. Tesla is the industry driver right now that all the automakers are watching. And the smart ones will be cozying up to them fast.
Quote:
And Musk said he's unveiling the model 3 in 2017. That's great! But can he keep up with demand producing so little and keep his word on his absurd claims of producing over a million cars by 2025? Tesla is a specialty luxury firm that lack the capabilities to produce half a million cars. It will not keep up with the big boys. If Tesla cannot earn profit on its existing luxury cars, how will it do so, selling something for HALF the price?
I just don't believe the hype of this company.
I don't know the production claims, nor do I care. Musk will do what he has to do to win, and win he shall.
Oh, btw. You don't think Japan subsidizes Nissan for the Leaf? Here it is, right from the horses mouth.
All Nissan LEAF grades qualify for the Japanese government's eco-car subsidies and are exempt from the automobile weight tax and automobile acquisition tax. In addition, LEAF customers can receive up to 780,000 yen in incentive grants in accordance with the Japanese government's incentive scheme for fiscal year 2012 to promote the purchase of clean energy vehicles.
Notes:
Customers can apply for these subsidies at the Next Generation Vehicle Promotion Center. Additional subsidies may be available through local governments. To qualify for these subsidies, owners must retain the vehicle for six years.
Nissan LEAF also qualifies for preferential tax incentives available for environmentally friendly vehicles. As such, the LEAF is fully exempt from the automobile acquisition tax on vehicles registered by March 31, 2015, and the automobile weight tax on vehicles registered by April 30, 2015.
Additionally, the automobile tax on vehicles registered by March 31, 2014 is reduced by 50 percent for one year starting from the next fiscal year following the registrations.
BOSE is a registered trademark of the Bose Corporation.
Plasma Cluster is a registered trademark of the Sharp Corporation.
You wait. Tesla technologies will end up being licensed by many companies, many of whom will probably buy Tesla batteries outright, once that new plant kicks in.
Indeed.
And like many US equities, TSLA's a pricey stock currently. Closed @ $259 today, haven't run P/E in a bit but sure it's high.
Usual shaky summer -- buying dips ahead.
Kdog is the taking out the claws for Tesla. Put down the kool-aid though buddy.
Ok let's start. First off, BMW’s albeit more expensive i8 takes the electrified car further with its use of lightweight materials than the model S, and while Nissan’s Leaf is less sophisticated, it sells for a fraction of the Tesla. Yes it gets less miles per charge but that's because it's a smaller battery than the model S (24kwh vs 60-85 kwh with the S). Yet, if it made sense to create $75,000- $100,000 EVs that lose mountains of money, any global car company could build a Model S. I'm not here to just defend EVs like you think I am. Personally I find the venture into EVs ultimately spurious. To think that the solution to our woes is to continue our reliance on car dependency and suburban pattern development is "revolutionary" takes the cake. Besides only about 6 percent of national electric power is "clean” hydro generation. 20 percent is nuclear and the rest is coal (48 percent) and natural gas. Yet your guru says his cars don't burn hydrocarbons. It's laughable. Policy should be geared toward increasing public transit on a massive scale.
Where else do you get your info? From Musk's Ted-talk like speeches? Toyota and Daimler pulled out of Tesla and sold their stake, buddy. Musk had to do damage control by fostering up some scheme with the German press that he was going into partnership with BMW to keep his stock pumped! LOL. The Germans shut him up quick. BMW didn't need his batteries and are well equipped to facilitate their own ventures.
Next you buy into his claim that the third model will put all others into the dustbin, but the guy builds his cars in a factory once owned by GM-Toyota that pumped out 250k autos! They guy could barely push out 35k last year! And then he has the audacity to tell people that he will be churning out half a million by 2025! Ha! How will he do this? He can barely sell the cars he sells now and keep up. Yes he's number one right now but his company is losing money! And he expects to do even better selling a car at half the price?
By the time he works all that out the other majors will have squashed him. They have the infrastructure and the dealerships. Tesla is a boutique firm being sustained by stock pumping, subsidies and lackluster sales. It's liabilities outweigh its assets. They offer crappy trade in deals and I still can't wrap my brain as to how they will specialty service all those vehicles he expects to churn out by the 2020s.
And like many US equities, TSLA's a pricey stock currently. Closed @ $259 today, haven't run P/E in a bit but sure it's high.
Usual shaky summer -- buying dips ahead.
So why does the company need the taxpayers to provide them millions of dollars?
So why does the company need the taxpayers to provide them millions of dollars?
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey
Liberals oppose subsidies to oil companies, but are fine with subsidies for Tesla and other cleantech companies.
We should be outraged at all corporate subsidies.
This should be completely nonpartisan across-the-board outrage.
We debate taxes here all the time while many major corporations get free passes or straight-up subsidies.
Pointing out TSLA as a beneficiary is a start -- hardly much compared to ALL the others (not just oil & gas).
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What a bunch of baloney. The Leaf is a joke which get 50 miles on a charge. 50 miles!! Teslas go 200 miles!! And they have since their very first model.
