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There was a time in this country that the thought of getting on the government dole was the last thing a person would want. The thought of having to rely on assistance when a person was capable of washing a floor or taking in laundry was shameful and degrading. In today's entitlement society, welfare recipients are viewed as victims who are entitled to spend others' income on fast food or at expensive grocery stores and should not be held to any standards when it comes to receiving such payments. At the end of slavery, there were more black families in tact in the US than any other time in history...except for after the civil war. The "war on poverty" decimated the black family and as a result, children are without guidance of a father figure and are parented by overwhelmed and under supported mothers. In today's entitlement society, a college education is a "given" and student feel that they are "owed" that education for "free." Before 1960, people attended college to gain a foothold in the career world. They sold their personal belongings and worked several jobs to earn the costs of an education, because it had value. Today's society does not "value" a hard earned education or taking personal responsibility for yourself and your family and contributing to society by working and paying taxes. Today's society values victimhood and "progress" and sexual freedom, but not actual freedom, liberty to engage in public spectacle, but not actual liberty.
Our history has been rewritten by Howard Zinn and our teachers have spent over 60 years teaching children what to think and not how to think. Today's society actually values socialist ideals and sees those concepts of the free market, free speech, freedom of religion and the other visions upon which this nation was founded as "racist, homophobic, sexist...blah, blah, blah" because that is what they have been taught to think throughout their education.
Political parties have created a deepening schism within our nation and there are so many special interest groups that are devoted to bullying and demeaning people, that people live in fear of committing a thought crime by the way they greet another person today.
Colleges inform students that they are guilty of crimes like "white pride" and "homophobia" and "racism" and men are responsible for "rape culture" and women are "**** shamed" etc., etc., etc...so that the future generation no longer focuses on creating a society with goals of unity and peaceful coexistence with all citizens, but instead focus on DIVERSITY and DIVISION.
Yeah, I question often whether I am the angry old man from Saturday Night Live, but invariably, I see that my sense is not stemming from some glossed over nostalgia, but from the reality that exists today and projects anger, vitriol, pessimism and darkness into our future.
Now THIS sounds like an old person! Not the OP.
Some old peoples (especially some old white people) rants always seem to speak of how us blacks in particular were better off being heavily discriminated against and being victims of domestic terrorism because having "in tact" families to them is the reason why (and I'm being saracstic here) all us blacks have a lot of horrible ills in the inner city. They ignore that we are better off now than we were then both economically and educationally and that the majority of us don't even live in the inner city. To them, that's not as important as having higher marriage rates even though just like now, back then out of wedlock births for blacks were 2 times more than whites. But the TV news feeds them stories about African Americans and because they come from an era when news was respectable they don't question the information they are fed or listen to the truth and reality about black people especially today. Plus in their era, blacks were also viewed as lazy and poor and uneducated, and unfortunately for many of them, those views and ideas are still in their minds from their childhoods.
These old people sit around and watch TV news and listen to radio news programs that feed them ideas and a false view of history that they believe and try to lecture us about and rant about the demise of society. It is pretty funny to me. They want to be able to be racist and homophobic and have the majority of society agree with them and their views instead of having those views pointed out for what they are - discriminatory and prejudicial. They think when others respond to their racist and homophobic views that their free speech is being trampled upon, even though they have every right to say what they want just like their detractors can respond how they want and they aren't jailed for speaking what they say.
Some old people don't like diversity. They like segregation. They don't see that diversity and "unity and a peaceful existence" are the same thing. They politicize every freaking thing imaginable! They pretend that the history they were taught it the "right" history, other people's struggles an experiences, even right here in our country is not important to them. They feel that speaking of the latter is just an attempt to make them feel guilty. In that way, some old people are VERY self centered and exhibit narcissism. They feel everything going on today is a threat to them or is something to make them less appreciated.
They think that Howard Zinn runs the educational system and that all public schools in every place around the country are the same and have the same teaching methods taught by only liberal teachers.
I personally think these old people are cute.
Some things are different today but being more diverse and less homophobic is nothing negative. The ignorance thought that I spoke of in my previous post is the most concerning to me but I did not mention what I already know, that most of the ignorant people today have ignorant parents (like the old people described above) and so that is not new either. Nor is corruption in government or any other things that have been mentioned.
The only things that are truly different is technology, which was mentioned and the lack of person to person socialization from preschool aged through adulthood today.
So, for those of you who feel that modern western culture isn't devolving into a piece of crap, perhaps you care to give some actual arguments instead of just calling me old?
Define "western culture". Define "crap". These are relative terms that could be encompassing of many things. You are asking for factual arguments to rebut subjective statements. You can't really quantify previous eras as "good" just as you can't quantify the current time period as "crap"...sure you might be able to point to some statistics and call them "indicators", but often there is not a strong casual link between the two (i.e. fewer narcissists result in better times, or the inverse: worse times are the result of more narcissists). Correlation != causation, and these arguments are shaky at best.
Mostly, I think people just like to romanticize the past. About a dozen years ago, people were glorifying the "greatest generation" to sell some books...it was mostly a bunch of hooey designed to encourage dopes to give the book peddlers their money; it was a big old-people circle jerk...in reality, there are good and bad in any society, and in any time.
Personally, I think now is more exciting of a time than in any point in my life...
Last edited by KC_Sleuth; 06-02-2015 at 07:54 AM..
Secondly, racism is hardly gone(note what is going on in Baltimore, Ferguson, etc). Racism is just a part of life. And in all honesty, racism in its most violent, oppressive, and exploitative form(IE African slavery) was created only a few hundred years ago by people who wanted to use African labor for profit in the "New World".
Racism is really only a problem when people of different races live among each other in large numbers. Which almost never happened prior to the 1600's. And where it has ever happened, had always been in slave societies.
With that said, racism was really only a problem for blacks, once blacks began moving to the major cities during the great migrations(especially during and after WWII). When they lived in rural areas, they largely just lived with other blacks. And the racism was mutual.
In all honesty, of the ~200,000 years where anatomically-modern humans have existed on this Earth, and the ~60,000 years in which humans began leaving East Africa; Why do people pretend that a few hundred years of African slavery, makes anything before 1980 absolutely terrible for all black people, ever?
I mean, the Romans were enslaving anyone they could get their hands on, whites, blacks, anyone. So were the Persians.
For that matter, the United States fought its first wars ever, "The Barbary Wars", against Muslims who were enslaving "White, Christian sailors".
I assume since you are so young, that you haven't really reflected on how society has really changed over time, except in very broad strokes. Racism isn't really what made life good or bad. Things like marriage, the number of children born out-of-wedlock and raised without a father. But also, just how shallow, petty, and materialistic society has become. How the feminists are destroying families, masculinity, monogamy, etc. Very few people these days act with any sense of honor. The old "sense of community" has disappeared.
I'm a deteriorationist like Rousseau. I find humanity to be on a slow but continuous march into total garbage. And I think it is increasingly obvious to most people that "the future isn't bright".
Secondly, racism is hardly gone(note what is going on in Baltimore, Ferguson, etc). Racism is just a part of life. And in all honesty, racism in its most violent, oppressive, and exploitative form(IE African slavery) was created only a few hundred years ago by people who wanted to use African labor for profit in the "New World".
Racism is really only a problem when people of different races live among each other in large numbers. Which almost never happened prior to the 1600's. And where it has ever happened, had always been in slave societies.
With that said, racism was really only a problem for blacks, once blacks began moving to the major cities during the great migrations(especially during and after WWII). When they lived in rural areas, they largely just lived with other blacks. And the racism was mutual.
In all honesty, of the ~200,000 years where anatomically-modern humans have existed on this Earth, and the ~60,000 years in which humans began leaving East Africa; Why do people pretend that a few hundred years of African slavery, makes anything before 1980 absolutely terrible for all black people, ever?
I mean, the Romans were enslaving anyone they could get their hands on, whites, blacks, anyone. So were the Persians.
For that matter, the United States fought its first wars ever, "The Barbary Wars", against Muslims who were enslaving "White, Christian sailors".
I assume since you are so young, that you haven't really reflected on how society has really changed over time, except in very broad strokes. Racism isn't really what made life good or bad. Things like marriage, the number of children born out-of-wedlock and raised without a father. But also, just how shallow, petty, and materialistic society has become. How the feminists are destroying families, masculinity, monogamy, etc. Very few people these days act with any sense of honor. The old "sense of community" has disappeared.
I'm a deteriorationist like Rousseau. I find humanity to be on a slow but continuous march into total garbage. And I think it is increasingly obvious to most people that "the future isn't bright".
One telling difference is that people used to let their kids play outside and a grown up didn't need to be there too. Now most people wouldn't dare do that.
Another one is that a woman used to be protected by men - if there was a problem, she could go to a man for help. Now women are more fearful of going to a man for help unless she knows him.
... and many people won't let their kid play anywhere IF a grownup is there, unless they are also there.
You are absolutely right. I am 70 and lived through much of the "good old days" often referred to in this thread. They weren't all that good. Oppression/suppression of women and minorities was the norm; people died from diseases that are now curable - or no longer exist; information was laboriously mined, rather than instantly available; getting in touch with distant friends was expensive and often not possible, etc. The only good thing about the past was that I was young and my life was in front of me, rather than mostly behind me. Anyone who says life was better back then is suffering from nostalgic tunnel vision.
You are absolutely right. I am 70 and lived through much of the "good old days" often referred to in this thread. They weren't all that good. Oppression/suppression of women and minorities was the norm; people died from diseases that are now curable - or no longer exist; information was laboriously mined, rather than instantly available; getting in touch with distant friends was expensive and often not possible, etc. The only good thing about the past was that I was young and my life was in front of me, rather than mostly behind me. Anyone who says life was better back then is suffering from nostalgic tunnel vision.
People have been hawking "the good old days" since before the "good old days"...for some reason or another the human mind has a confirmation bias towards the past, rather than the future...maybe it's a fear of unfamiliarity or something. I was recently watching a documentary about life in 1914 at the outbreak of World War I. There is no way you can even compare how good we have it now to just 100 years ago...it is simply worlds of difference better.
Some old peoples (especially some old white people) rants always seem to speak of how us blacks in particular were better off being heavily discriminated against and being victims of domestic terrorism because having "in tact" families to them is the reason why (and I'm being saracstic here) all us blacks have a lot of horrible ills in the inner city. They ignore that we are better off now than we were then both economically and educationally and that the majority of us don't even live in the inner city. To them, that's not as important as having higher marriage rates even though just like now, back then out of wedlock births for blacks were 2 times more than whites. But the TV news feeds them stories about African Americans and because they come from an era when news was respectable they don't question the information they are fed or listen to the truth and reality about black people especially today. Plus in their era, blacks were also viewed as lazy and poor and uneducated, and unfortunately for many of them, those views and ideas are still in their minds from their childhoods.
These old people sit around and watch TV news and listen to radio news programs that feed them ideas and a false view of history that they believe and try to lecture us about and rant about the demise of society. It is pretty funny to me. They want to be able to be racist and homophobic and have the majority of society agree with them and their views instead of having those views pointed out for what they are - discriminatory and prejudicial. They think when others respond to their racist and homophobic views that their free speech is being trampled upon, even though they have every right to say what they want just like their detractors can respond how they want and they aren't jailed for speaking what they say.
Some old people don't like diversity. They like segregation. They don't see that diversity and "unity and a peaceful existence" are the same thing. They politicize every freaking thing imaginable! They pretend that the history they were taught it the "right" history, other people's struggles an experiences, even right here in our country is not important to them. They feel that speaking of the latter is just an attempt to make them feel guilty. In that way, some old people are VERY self centered and exhibit narcissism. They feel everything going on today is a threat to them or is something to make them less appreciated.
They think that Howard Zinn runs the educational system and that all public schools in every place around the country are the same and have the same teaching methods taught by only liberal teachers.
I personally think these old people are cute.
Some things are different today but being more diverse and less homophobic is nothing negative. The ignorance thought that I spoke of in my previous post is the most concerning to me but I did not mention what I already know, that most of the ignorant people today have ignorant parents (like the old people described above) and so that is not new either. Nor is corruption in government or any other things that have been mentioned.
The only things that are truly different is technology, which was mentioned and the lack of person to person socialization from preschool aged through adulthood today.
Sorry pal, but your arm chair psychology is as accurate as your ability to correctly identify my age. But don't let that get in the way of your narrow minded group think bigotry!
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