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Originally Posted by greywar View Post
I have seen a lot of arguments about what a living wage is. think I have found one I like.
Roosevelt-
Notice...this means a living wage can support kids, allow you to go to school, even have something for recreation. Allows you to save for retirement, and even have some set aside for when you get sick.
Since Roosevelts age we have made vast improvements in productivity, and its all been going to the top for the last generation. He believed this was doable back then, today it should be even easier. We're doing it wrong.
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Originally Posted by marcopolo
Kind of ironic to hold up Roosevelt as a model of anything. He raised costs for business, and there was less business. He raised prices on goods and services, and less were used. He increased the price of labor, and jobs plummeted. His policies clearly prolonged the Depression.
And specifically, 'living wage' regulation would further reduce the employability of low-skill workers, exacerbating the terrible unemployment rate in our inner cities and among the poor. It is a cruel hoax.
Yes it is funny he brings Roosevelt up. The only reason we pulled out of depression is not because of Roosevelt's policies but because of WWII. During the war, unemployment dropped to 2%, relief programs largely ended, and the industrial economy grew as millions of people moved to wartime factory jobs or entered military service.
Would you like enough to pay for a Mercedes and a maid too?
LOL. If I wanted them I make enough now.
Kind of a odd response to me responding to another post though. What makes you think a living wage requires a maid or a mercedes? Maybe you should go back and read the first post again.
Yes it is funny he brings Roosevelt up. The only reason we pulled out of depression is not because of Roosevelt's policies but because of WWII. During the war, unemployment dropped to 2%, relief programs largely ended, and the industrial economy grew as millions of people moved to wartime factory jobs or entered military service.
Except for that whole part abut the depression ending in 1939. You know...before the war really got going.
Yes it is funny he brings Roosevelt up. The only reason we pulled out of depression is not because of Roosevelt's policies but because of WWII. During the war, unemployment dropped to 2%, relief programs largely ended, and the industrial economy grew as millions of people moved to wartime factory jobs or entered military service.
Of course the Keynesian argument is WWII forced Roosevelt to spend enough to lift the economy out of the depression. That is partly true but it left us with a 100% GDP/Debt ratio which we were able to recover from due to the rest of the world needed our goods.
I would define a living wage as having enough to meet your necessities with money left over to accumulate capital. Less than that, and you're generally stuck in perpetual poverty (i.e., "wage slavery") with just enough consumption to tread water.
LOL. The basic free market stuff works perfectly when theres sufficient jobs to employ everyone. For example-when this country was formed 90%+ of our population was working on farms. There was demand and competition for employees, realistically no fit human being would be unemployed except by choice.
Welcome to 2015. a significant % of our population is unemployed, and not by choice. People who growing up had nothing but opportunity, can't comprehend the changing world, and apply their old beliefs to the current world.
That (along with my post and link above) is the problem. Odd that people don't want to take the time to address the actual problems.
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Suddenly Basic free market capitalism no longer is good for the the community. Because there is no competition at the bottom end of the skillset, and the "bottom end" is rising as automation comes into play more and more. While battered by offshoring, now the automation is going to smash it.
Basically.....I worry about what occurs next. I worry that the increasingly unemployed will look at this, and recognize that their choices are limited. And that rising from this they will vote in extremist choices. Or even worse become violent.
You are right to worry when people refuse to address the actual problems.
Of course the Keynesian argument is WWII forced Roosevelt to spend enough to lift the economy out of the depression. That is partly true but it left us with a 100% GDP/Debt ratio which we were able to recover from due to the rest of the world needed our goods.
The depression ended because we destroyed a large segment of our competition.
Since we dont even come close to meeting it for any of these, I'd argue we can do better
Go read the first post again. You're trying to over specificy it while ignoring that we don't even come close to meeting any of it really.
I love how you toss in a attack on unions in the middle too. Yeah thats reasonable.
Stop spewing nonsense, and think about what Roosevelt was communicating.
I didn't attack unions. I merely pointed out the fact that unions and living wages cannot coexist, since everyone's need is different.
Would you, as an employee do the exact same job as the person next to you for less money, simply because they have greater need?
That there is "common sense", not nonsense.
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