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Old 06-05-2015, 10:42 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,004 posts, read 44,804,275 times
Reputation: 13698

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
So the argument is that the rich deserve to be richer
Read The Millionaire Next Door. Understand the life and financial decisions those millionaires have made to amass their wealth. Note that 80% of them are first-generation wealthy. Anyone can do it. Whining about not having enough to live on is almost always a consequence of one's own bad decisions/actions.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:48 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,004 posts, read 44,804,275 times
Reputation: 13698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
Absolutely! If workers are being more efficient and still working a 40 hour week, profits to the company are that much more. Why should it all go to the top?
It doesn't. Only ignorant people believe that. 100 million or more American workers and retirees have $24 trillion worth of equity investments, etc., in their pension/retirement accounts.

Retirement Question 4 | EBRI

Quote:
"This shift of business ownership from rich people to working people may be the greatest economic transformation since the Industrial Revolution.

...So what does all this mean? Well, for starters, it should lead to an end of complaints about the profits of corporations and allegations about 'greedy corporations.' After all, much of that profit now goes toward the current and future retirement incomes of working people."
Business Ownership & Labor Day

Everyone who contributes to or benefits from an IRA, 401K, pension fund (public employee, union, or private sector), mutual fund, annuity, or whole life insurance policy, etc., DEPENDS on corporate profits. Just so you understand, I'll reiterate... they DEPEND on corporate profits.

How anyone fails to connect the dots on how so very many Americans' retirement plans (pensions, IRAs/401Ks, annuities, etc.) absolutely depend on corporate profits is beyond me. Don't people have critical thinking skills anymore?
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:59 AM
 
34,278 posts, read 19,365,659 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Read The Millionaire Next Door. Understand the life and financial decisions those millionaires have made to amass their wealth. Note that 80% of them are first-generation wealthy. Anyone can do it. Whining about not having enough to live on is almost always a consequence of one's own bad decisions/actions.
Being a millionaire sounds great...until you recognize that its not impressive at all. It doesn't even get you into the 1%, let alone real money of the .01%. I know, you think thats some amazing thing, "Oh look a million" Which just indicates how uninformed you are at the level of wealth inequality in our nation.

Plus....how much do you need to retire? Yeah.
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Old 06-05-2015, 12:09 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,004 posts, read 44,804,275 times
Reputation: 13698
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Being a millionaire sounds great...until you recognize that its not impressive at all. It doesn't even get you into the 1%, let alone real money of the .01%.
Doesn't matter. Millionaires earn more than minimum wage. Why? Read the book. They make informed and wise life and financial decisions. 80% of U.S. millionaires are first-generation wealthy. If they can do it, so can anyone else willing to make informed and wise life and financial decisions.

Like I said... not having enough income to live on is almost always a consequence of one's own bad decisions/actions. Most people CHOOSE to be poor. Since that's their own choice, no one owes them anything more than they can acquire on their own.
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Old 06-05-2015, 12:11 PM
 
1,069 posts, read 1,047,571 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Being a millionaire sounds great...until you recognize that its not impressive at all. It doesn't even get you into the 1%, let alone real money of the .01%. I know, you think thats some amazing thing, "Oh look a million" Which just indicates how uninformed you are at the level of wealth inequality in our nation.

Plus....how much do you need to retire? Yeah.
Umm... I think you worded this wrong, because whether or not it's "impressive" it's still great. If I had a million dollars, or made that in a year, every single on of my current goals related to money could be accomplished, that sounds pretty great to me.
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Old 06-05-2015, 01:21 PM
 
4,873 posts, read 3,600,891 times
Reputation: 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Doesn't matter. Millionaires earn more than minimum wage. Why? Read the book. They make informed and wise life and financial decisions. 80% of U.S. millionaires are first-generation wealthy. If they can do it, so can anyone else willing to make informed and wise life and financial decisions.

Like I said... not having enough income to live on is almost always a consequence of one's own bad decisions/actions. Most people CHOOSE to be poor. Since that's their own choice, no one owes them anything more than they can acquire on their own.
Were 80% of them from wage-slave families, i.e. families earning less than a living wage? I think not. Saying "oh we don't need a minimum wage because these millionaires all came from families with merely hundreds of thousands of dollars" isn't terribly convincing. There are many families that physically and mathematically cannot save up money to improve their future position because they earn less than their present necessities. The crux of this thread topic is that it matters if you can't earn more than your daily needs, and it presents a very real poverty trap. That is a problem, and the statistics demonstrate that it exists.
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Old 06-05-2015, 01:43 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,004 posts, read 44,804,275 times
Reputation: 13698
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Were 80% of them from wage-slave families, i.e. families earning less than a living wage? I think not.
80% of them came from families who were not wealthy. The NY Times published the first chapter. Read it:

https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/...llionaire.html

Again, I'll reiterate... 80% of U.S. millionaires are first-generation wealthy. If they can do it, so can anyone else willing to make informed and wise life and financial decisions.

Not having enough income to live on is almost always a consequence of one's own bad decisions/actions. Most people CHOOSE to be poor. Since that's their own choice, no one owes them anything more than they can acquire on their own.
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Old 06-05-2015, 01:48 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,004 posts, read 44,804,275 times
Reputation: 13698
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
There are many families that physically and mathematically cannot save up money to improve their future position because they earn less than their present necessities.
They're living beyond their means. Not too hard to realize that. Much of what they have/spend their money on are wants, not needs. For example, the poor are far more likely to smoke tobacco products. That costs $$$ in unecessary spending.
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Old 06-05-2015, 01:51 PM
 
4,873 posts, read 3,600,891 times
Reputation: 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
80% of them came from families who were not wealthy. The NY Times published the first chapter. Read it:

https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/...llionaire.html

Again, I'll reiterate... 80% of U.S. millionaires are first-generation wealthy. If they can do it, so can anyone else willing to make informed and wise life and financial decisions.

Not having enough income to live on is almost always a consequence of one's own bad decisions/actions. Most people CHOOSE to be poor. Since that's their own choice, no one owes them anything more than they can acquire on their own.
What's provided doesn't define very finely what they mean by "not wealthy". However, since they make a point of saying less than half receive an inheritance, I assume that those 80% of non-wealthy were mostly making above a living wage. It's impossible to say for sure from this book since it doesn't provide any details.
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Old 06-05-2015, 01:59 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,004 posts, read 44,804,275 times
Reputation: 13698
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
What's provided doesn't define very finely what they mean by "not wealthy".
It means "not rich." Furthermore, they don't have fancy job titles: "We are welding contractors, auctioneers, rice farmers, owners of mobile-home parks, pest controllers, coin and stamp dealers, and paving contractors."
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