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Old 05-12-2015, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,902,028 times
Reputation: 4512

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Many talk about how "America needs a raise," how the minimum wage is too low, etc.

My question, have those who support increasing the minimum wage ever looked at both sides of the issue and challenged themselves asking a few questions that might put the onus on the employee?
  • What if burger flipping really is worth $9/hour?
  • What if fast food employees haven't increased their productivity over the last 30 years?
  • What if an employee's marginal cost is less than the marginal revenue they produce for a company?

The common "moderate" leftist figure is that the minimum wage be raised to $10.10/hour, so we'll be rational and use that. Yet my question still stands, what is being done to get people off the minimum wage? If the average age of a minimum wage employee (according to a thread somewhere here) is 36 years old, then nothing will have been done to address that horrible number.

Let's take it up a notch, even $15/hour minimum wage is still unacceptable as that's 30,000/year. Maybe a decent salary for someone out of college living in a cheap town whose job has health benefits. In my opinion though at 36, having around 10-15 years of work experience, $15/hours is still insufficient.

Is the problem that minimum wage is too low, or is it that people are worth the minimum wage?
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Old 05-12-2015, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, New York
3,121 posts, read 3,098,001 times
Reputation: 2312
I've always proposed closing down businesses that pay minimum wage during school hours and after 8pm. By then, the kiddies working there should be headed home to get a nice 9 and a half hours of sleep.
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Old 05-12-2015, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,998 posts, read 12,943,060 times
Reputation: 8365
It's probably a foreign concept for you, but some actually believe that people are inherently valuable and not our currency, which is controlled by a private and international institution that colludes with banks they then deem "too big to fail".

Money (USD) is not backed by anything but EVERYONE's faith in it. It has no inherent value like human life does. If our monetary and financial system is not working for the majority of people (95% Of Income Gains Since 2009 Went To The Top 1%. Here's What That Really Means. - Business Insider) America's disappearing middle class - Economy then it should be rebuilt and the banks that have controlled our Government and economy should be broken up.

You are essentially a slave to a piece of paper, which renders you unable to have these discussions or to think beyond our present system.
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Old 05-12-2015, 01:00 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,384,355 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
Many talk about how "America needs a raise," how the minimum wage is too low, etc.

My question, have those who support increasing the minimum wage ever looked at both sides of the issue and challenged themselves asking a few questions that might put the onus on the employee?
  • What if burger flipping really is worth $9/hour?
  • What if fast food employees haven't increased their productivity over the last 30 years?
  • What if an employee's marginal cost is less than the marginal revenue they produce for a company?

The common "moderate" leftist figure is that the minimum wage be raised to $10.10/hour, so we'll be rational and use that. Yet my question still stands, what is being done to get people off the minimum wage? If the average age of a minimum wage employee (according to a thread somewhere here) is 36 years old, then nothing will have been done to address that horrible number.

Let's take it up a notch, even $15/hour minimum wage is still unacceptable as that's 30,000/year. Maybe a decent salary for someone out of college living in a cheap town whose job has health benefits. In my opinion though at 36, having around 10-15 years of work experience, $15/hours is still insufficient.

Is the problem that minimum wage is too low, or is it that people are worth the minimum wage?
How exactly do you value your fellow American citizens? Looking at the data, in 1970 the folks at the bottom stopped sharing in the economic pie. If they had minimum wage would be about $22. f we set minimum wage to match some of the higher points in the past it is $10.10. $15 s often picked as a compromise number.

But it really comes down to how you value your fellow citizens.
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Old 05-12-2015, 01:01 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,827,388 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
It's probably a foreign concept for you, but some believe that people are inherently valuable and not our currency which is controlled by a private and international institution that colludes with banks they then deem "too big to fail".

Money is not backed by anything but EVERYONE's faith in it. It has no inherent value like human life does. If our monetary and financial system is not working for the majority of people (95% Of Income Gains Since 2009 Went To The Top 1%. Here's What That Really Means. - Business Insider) then it should be rebuilt and the banks that have controlled our Government and economy should be broken up.
Where at the chevron station can I exchange my inherent value for some gas?
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Old 05-12-2015, 01:04 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,827,388 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
How exactly do you value your fellow American citizens? Looking at the data, in 1970 the folks at the bottom stopped sharing in the economic pie. If they had minimum wage would be about $22. f we set minimum wage to match some of the higher points in the past it is $10.10. $15 s often picked as a compromise number.

But it really comes down to how you value your fellow citizens.
If we based minimum wage on inflation since inception it would be less than $4.50 an hour.

How about we let the employe and the employer determine the value of an hours worth of work.
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Old 05-12-2015, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,902,028 times
Reputation: 4512
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
It's probably a foreign concept for you, but some actually believe that people are inherently valuable and not our currency, which is controlled by a private and international institution that colludes with banks they then deem "too big to fail"..
There are inherently valuable, but their labor may not be.
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Old 05-12-2015, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,902,028 times
Reputation: 4512
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
How exactly do you value your fellow American citizens? Looking at the data, in 1970 the folks at the bottom stopped sharing in the economic pie. If they had minimum wage would be about $22. f we set minimum wage to match some of the higher points in the past it is $10.10. $15 s often picked as a compromise number.

But it really comes down to how you value your fellow citizens.
I think it's pretty easy to value labor. This is what is at stake here. Don't turn this into some human rights issue. We are specifically talking about the labor market.
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Old 05-12-2015, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,998 posts, read 12,943,060 times
Reputation: 8365
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Where at the chevron station can I exchange my inherent value for some gas?
As I mentioned in my post above, some are so simple minded they are unable to think beyond our present monetary system.

You'll be among the masses asking "what happened?" when the USD loses it's world reserve currency status.
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Old 05-12-2015, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,674 posts, read 10,608,027 times
Reputation: 5582
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
It's probably a foreign concept for you, but some actually believe that people are inherently valuable and not our currency, which is controlled by a private and international institution that colludes with banks they then deem "too big to fail".

Money (USD) is not backed by anything but EVERYONE's faith in it. It has no inherent value like human life does. If our monetary and financial system is not working for the majority of people (95% Of Income Gains Since 2009 Went To The Top 1%. Here's What That Really Means. - Business Insider) then it should be rebuilt and the banks that have controlled our Government and economy should be broken up.

You are essentially a slave to a piece of paper, which renders you unable to have these discussions or to think beyond our present system.
Isnt that exactly what makes Money the perfect medium for payment? It has a relatively set value (defined externally and unchanged by personal preference) and the quantity of Money exchanged for goods and services is negotiated based on the perceived value of the goods and services, not the perceived value of the money since that value is externally defined.

For the economic exchange it makes no difference how or by whom the value is defined, only that it IS defined and that valuation is relatively stable over time. If it were unstable, then the fair wage you set this morning could well be below poverty level by lunch time (See Argentina for examples)
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