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You don't see improvement as a good thing? I personally want to see the US continue to lead, and the only way that is going to continue to happen is to be dynamic and nimble. From a practical point of view, the use of a archaic system if weights and measures is a handicap for the US, which I would like to see addressed. Certain sectors (eg automotive, military, science) have already made the switch, it is time the rest of the country does to.
That's the assumption, you see it as an improvement.
Why is it an improvement?
Metric is entirely arbitrary, from the origin unit of a second (based on a mean solar year length, although now shoehorned into arbitrary counts of atomic transitions that closely approximate that length of time), to the artifact derived kilogram (yes it's just a specific cylinder of platinum and iridium). It's no less arbitrary than Standard. If it were not arbitrary then why is 1m actually defined as 1/299,792,458 of the distance light travels in 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the Caesium 133 atom at mean sea level and 0k. That's some fine magic numbery don't you think?
So consider we have time based on mean solar year length, meter based on second, and kilogram based on a chunk of metal, Celsius is based on arbitrary purified sea water[VSMOW] (Kelvin's origin is physically correct, but the scale is arbitrary), Amp depends on the meter and Newton (which is dependent on Kilogram, meter and second), thus derived from a second and a chunk of metal, moles depend on kilograms thus derived from a chunk of metal.
That's better how? Don't go telling me it's decimal, because the vast majority of calculations performed on the planet are binary, so if we use the logic of "the most used is the best" we need to convert our number system to binary, are you proposing that?
Not that I have any issues with Standard, Metric, SI, or my favorite Planck Units, they're all just abstract concepts that determine physical properties, thus neither is better than the other.
All system of measurement are fundamentally arbitrary, an inch is officially defined as 25.4mm, so it is even more arbitrary than the meter/centimeter.
Plenty of other poster have explained in depth why metric is an improvement. However it fundamentally comes down to the fact that metric (and more specifically SI) is a SYSTEM of measurements and was designed as such, whereas standard is a mishmash of legacy units. I can easily tell you how many liters are in a cubic meter, or how many lightbulbs my 100kw engine could power, or how much energy it would take to lift a ton of bricks 10 meters.
The decimal nature of metric is also incredibly important. I know I personally do my math in base 10, not in binary. I can quickly tell you that if I walked 1.3km and am still 250m from my destination, that my total trip is 1.55km. However if I had walked 1.3 miles and my destination is still 250' away, I have no idea how far my total trip was (unless I can do some serious long division in my head).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir
That's the assumption, you see it as an improvement.
Why is it an improvement?
Metric is entirely arbitrary, from the origin unit of a second (based on a mean solar year length, although now shoehorned into arbitrary counts of atomic transitions that closely approximate that length of time), to the artifact derived kilogram (yes it's just a specific cylinder of platinum and iridium). It's no less arbitrary than Standard. If it were not arbitrary then why is 1m actually defined as 1/299,792,458 of the distance light travels in 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the Caesium 133 atom at mean sea level and 0k. That's some fine magic numbery don't you think?
So consider we have time based on mean solar year length, meter based on second, and kilogram based on a chunk of metal, Celsius is based on arbitrary purified sea water[VSMOW] (Kelvin's origin is physically correct, but the scale is arbitrary), Amp depends on the meter and Newton (which is dependent on Kilogram, meter and second), thus derived from a second and a chunk of metal, moles depend on kilograms thus derived from a chunk of metal.
That's better how? Don't go telling me it's decimal, because the vast majority of calculations performed on the planet are binary, so if we use the logic of "the most used is the best" we need to convert our number system to binary, are you proposing that?
Not that I have any issues with Standard, Metric, SI, or my favorite Planck Units, they're all just abstract concepts that determine physical properties, thus neither is better than the other.
All system of measurement are fundamentally arbitrary, an inch is officially defined as 25.4mm, so it is even more arbitrary than the meter/centimeter.
No, it means that one inch is equally as arbitrary, it's just a defined unit of a metric measure, just like mm, or kg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OscarTheGrouch
Plenty of other poster have explained in depth why metric is an improvement. However it fundamentally comes down to the fact that metric (and more specifically SI) is a SYSTEM of measurements and was designed as such, whereas standard is a mishmash of legacy units. I can easily tell you how many liters are in a cubic meter, or how many lightbulbs my 100kw engine could power, or how much energy it would take to lift a ton of bricks 10 meters.
Plenty of other posters have explained nothing, because as far as I'm aware I'm the only person who as bothered to go into detail as to how any SI units are derived. You are not one of those people, nor is anyone else in this thread. If you do not go into detail as to how the units are derived you cannot explain why they are better, you can only give an entirely subjective opinion.
I can easily tell you how many pints are in a gallon, barrel, oil barrel, and hogshead as well, so does that make me as smart or smarter than you?
How can you know how many lightbulbs your 100kW engine could power? Engines create mechanical power, not electrical, so wouldn't that power output be determined by your alternator or generator on the output of the engine? And wouldn't it be under 100kW output as it's not 100% efficient (typically between 33% to 60%)? Then there's the question of what's the lightbulb output? Suppose it's a typical LED it's output is 50mcd with a 98 lm/W (red/orange) efficiency, how many can your 100kW engine illuminate? (without using binary...)
How much energy would it take to lift a ton of bricks 10 meters? Surely that would depend on the actual mechanics involved and efficiencies of those mechanics. It would also depend on your definition of ton, since there is a short ton (2000lb) metric ton (1000kg or a tonne) and long ton (2,240 lbs), and it would depend on the local gravity.
See when you actually look at the problems you're claiming are simple in metric as opposed to standard/imperial the issues are not as simple as presented. Sure if you present some completely facile physics 101 problem ignoring everything about the actual physics it's easy, but life isn't quite as simple, much as we physics guys would like it to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OscarTheGrouch
The decimal nature of metric is also incredibly important. I know I personally do my math in base 10, not in binary. I can quickly tell you that if I walked 1.3km and am still 250m from my destination, that my total trip is 1.55km. However if I had walked 1.3 miles and my destination is still 250' away, I have no idea how far my total trip was (unless I can do some serious long division in my head).
You do it in base 10 do you.
Like there are 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary and those who don't?
If you use a calculator, or a computer, you use binary it's just well hidden. Fact, in one hour an average laptop performs more calculations than the entire human race has ever performed in it's entire history by hand. How many laptops are there? How many servers are there, how many clients connected to those servers are there? How much processing power do we commit to convert from Binary representations of values to denary (it's not trivial)?
You do simple calculations in denary, but for complex calculations I'll bet dollars to donuts you're running for the calc, or computer.
All system of measurement are fundamentally arbitrary, an inch is officially defined as 25.4mm, so it is even more arbitrary than the meter/centimeter.
actually the inch comes from ancient egypt. it was the length of a pharohs index finger segment, from the tip the the first knuckle. and the foot was the measured by the same pharohs foot. imagine if his foot had been 11 inches.
actually the inch comes from ancient egypt. it was the length of a pharohs index finger segment, from the tip the the first knuckle. and the foot was the measured by the same pharohs foot. imagine if his foot had been 11 inches.
I thought an inch was 3 grains of barley laid end to end.
You don't see improvement as a good thing? I personally want to see the US continue to lead, and the only way that is going to continue to happen is to be dynamic and nimble. From a practical point of view, the use of a archaic system if weights and measures is a handicap for the US, which I would like to see addressed. Certain sectors (eg automotive, military, science) have already made the switch, it is time the rest of the country does to.
That's not what I'm saying. It's not just about this issue either. All you ever hear from the left is how out of whack America is compared to the rest of the world, on every issue. You never really hear a Democrat express that they are proud of this country, or that they love this country, or that they're patriotic, or that, God forbid, America is exceptional.... In fact, it seems they hate the idea of American Exceptionalism altogether.
I'm not saying improvement isn't a good thing and that we should just love our country for what it is and never try and improve it, and god knows there are a lot of things in need of improving. But, even though there are things in need of improving, I still love this country, and I'm proud of who we are and what we stand for.... You can admit that your country isn't perfect and still think it's a great country, it's all in the attitude, and I just don't get that vibe from Democrats....
it really does not matter. Just grab the wrench that fits. Something that really annoys me are the myriad of screw heads that require more then a straight or Phillips screwdriver. I just had to buy a screwdriver bit set just to put the license places on my car.
PS always carry a Metric and English adjustable crescent wrench. That will work most of the time. Ever notice that most spark plugs have metric threads and English hex sizes. Then there are the thread series. English, outside of Whitworth, has Coarse and Fine. Some metric fasteners have three different pitches and thread drill sizes for the same nominal shank diameter. That gets confusing.
it really does not matter. Just grab the wrench that fits. Something that really annoys me are the myriad of screw heads that require more then a straight or Phillips screwdriver. I just had to buy a screwdriver bit set just to put the license places on my car.
PS always carry a Metric and English adjustable crescent wrench. That will work most of the time. Ever notice that most spark plugs have metric threads and English hex sizes. Then there are the thread series. English, outside of Whitworth, has Coarse and Fine. Some metric fasteners have three different pitches and thread drill sizes for the same nominal shank diameter. That gets confusing.
LOL, that's what I do. I look at the head, then I look at the wrenches, and I'm like, "this looks like it fits, let's try it"
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