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If marriage is a "religious state" then why do you have to go to the state to get a marriage license for it to be a legal marriage in the eyes of the government, yet you can have a legal marriage with absolutely no church involvement?
People joining in a civil marriage can also practice any part of religion they wish.
Because government has to become god, to control liberties, of free people.
Government controls marriage. It is a privilege, not a right, because of governments involvement and control. Can government deny your privileges? How about rights? Can they deny you your rights?
Looks like they can deny you a marriage license. Must not be a right, if government controls it.
YES!!! But at least those laws don't violate someone's most fundamental beliefs.
Look, I don't believe in the idea that a man forfeits all his rights the moment he tries to feed himself.
The law is simply wrong. And only anti-Christian bigots, and ignorant morons, can't get it through their heads.
Actually the civil rights act was fought against by people claiming that their religious beliefs said that they could not sell to blacks, or have them in the same room as whites.
Funny, Christians scream persecution because someone says "happy holidays" instead of "merry christmas" to them. Yet REAL persecution, discrimination, and bigotry towards others is fine and dandy, in fact it is a "religious right"!
What I simply don't understand about these "religious" bakers, wedding venues, etc., is why couldn't they simply say that they are all booked up for the day of these gay couples wedding? Make an excuse if they do not want their, or ANYONE'S, business? This is in your face pushing THEIR religion, and not only concerning gay couples wedding cakes.
Leave your religion at home where it belongs. Customers don't care or want to know a business's religion. They want a good product or service, period. If they want religion, they can go themselves to a house of worship of THEIR choice.
How can you be so wrong! A corporation is created so that the individuals who invest to make that business work are protected along with their assets as individuals from any lawsuits brought by legitimate or bogus suits based on wrong-doing by the corporation. Only Corporate assets are vulnerable. Owners of businesses that are not incorporated expose every personal asset they own to legal suit in addition to whatever the business owns. That's the primary purpose of incorporating.
Of course corporations have very close relationship to people who are the investors/stock holders. These people have to make a profit on their invested $'s or there would be no investment, which means there would be no financing for the corporation. I'm shaking my head at the lack of understanding that so many people have of our free business economy. Without both people creating businesses and corporations where in the world would the jobs come from for the greater majority of our American people.
Fascism: No accountability, with corporate protections.
Corporations, run the government. A slap on the wrist is all the justice to be had.
Left out two big ones SS and healthcare. It is way too late for government to get out of marriage.
There is one state getting out of the marriage business.
It is not a right, if government controls it.
There is only one reason government controls marriage. So they the government, can tell you the individual, who you can legally marry. Not who you the individual wants to marry.
SS and Healthcare are not rights. They too are controlled by government.
There is one state getting out of the marriage business.
It is not a right, if government controls it.
Actually they aren't. They are getting out of the court house wedding service, they will still process the legal documents, and regulate marriage.
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SB377 would remove the duty of confirming marriages from county probate judges and allow marriages to be recorded by the state after filing a simple contract between two people eligible to be married that is solemnized by a pastor, attorney, or other authorized witness.
The centralized federal government controls and is involved in many things today, our ancestors fought a bloody revolution against England, to get free from.
We the People have let them the government, redefine the total meaning and intent of the US Constitution.
The day the 16th Amendment was passed, was the day, we the people once again became enslaved.
What part of the constitution provides freedom from religion?
So what are you saying?
The Constitution requires people to follow a religion? It's illegal to be an atheist, an agnostic, or a deist?
"Freedom of religion" does not mean a citizen can reject religious affiliation?
Who is forcing anyone to open a bakery? IF you can not serve cake A to everyone, don't offer it to anyone. Sell muffins or pies, or bread. Basically if your religious belief prohibits you selling a product then don't offer that product for sale. Go into a different line of work if the big kahuna says you can not sell baked goods.
Reminds of this poem...
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
What you don't seem to realize, is that you are effectively stating that anyone with a particular religious conviction, should be BANNED from potentially any number of occupations. If enough occupations were banned, maybe all a religious man could then do for his livelihood is to become a beggar?
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Originally Posted by jjrose
How is it harm for a baker to make something that he CHOSE to offer for sale, but not for me to have to drive all over town, or to another town to find someone to sell me a cake? He bakes the cake he gets paid. I have to go to several bakers to find one willing to sell to me I am out gas money and several hours of my time. Seems the verifiable harm is on my end. I could show the financial harm done to me, what can the baker show? Hurt feelings?
You refuse to see the relativity here. Which does more harm. A baker refusing to make a wedding cake for a gay couple, or putting a baker out of business, and suing him for all that he has earned and saved, and all that he may in the future earn and save?
Which does more harm, a baker choosing to not sell his labor to a gay couple. Or the government forcing a baker to provide his labor for the benefit of the gay couple?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose
Actually the civil rights act was fought against by people claiming that their religious beliefs said that they could not sell to blacks, or have them in the same room as whites.
Funny, Christians scream persecution because someone says "happy holidays" instead of "merry christmas" to them. Yet REAL persecution, discrimination, and bigotry towards others is fine and dandy, in fact it is a "religious right"!
Look, I'm not concerned about bigotry. Everyone is bigoted in their own ways. Everyone is racist in their own ways.
Who honestly believes there that all cultures are equal? Or that all religions are equal? Who doesn't realize there are differences between men and women?
Everyone discriminates. People discriminate against ugly people, fat people, stupid people, short people, old people, young people. People even make assumptions about people based on occupation, their accents, everything. I'm pretty tired of all the whinebagging.
If you don't have the freedom to be offensive, then you have no freedom at all.
State lawmakers are considering throwing out marriage in Oklahoma.
The idea stems from a bill filed by Rep. Mike Turner (R-Edmond). Turner says it’s an attempt to keep same-sex marriage illegal in Oklahoma while satisfying the U.S. Constitution. Critics are calling it a political stunt while supporters say it’s what Oklahomans want.
“[My constituents are] willing to have that discussion about whether marriage needs to be regulated by the state at all,” Turner said.
Other conservative lawmakers feel the same way, according to Turner.
“Would it be realistic for the State of Oklahoma to say, ‘We’re not going to do marriage period,'” asked News 9’s Michael Konopasek.
“That would definitely be a realistic opportunity, and it’s something that would be part of the discussion,” Turner answered.
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