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I'm a liberal and a youth minimum wage is a good idea. That's as long as its paired with an adult living wage.
-easier for young people to enter the workforce and get work experience
-small business such as mom and pop stores and fast food restaurants could rely on low wage youth workers. Many of these jobs were done by young people in the past. McDonalds, Sonic etc were not meant to be adult jobs (other than managers and supervisors etc).
Some jobs in our economy right now require adult workers yet pay at or close to minimum wage. If there are jobs in our economy that require adults to do how can we then not require that these jobs pay a living wage? How do we expect people to find housing with a very low wage? Let me put it another way. There are jobs that need to be done in society that require adult workers. Adults have responsibilities that young people don't. They must pay for housing, food, etc. Thus, it creates instability in society when citizens who must pay for their own housing and receiving too low of a wage to do so. This also puts a strain on our social services and it increases other workers taxes by having to subsidize low-wage workers. So, a living wage for all jobs that require an adult to do makes perfect sense.
That's as long as its paired with an adult living wage.
The current minimum wage is a living wage.
I can work 80 hours a week on minimum wage and live on $30k a year and even be in a decent apartment. Why can't others?
I can work 40 hours a week on minimum wage and live on $15k a year while splitting a not-very-nice 2 bedroom apartment with three other people. Why can't others?
We can run through the math if you'd like.
Keep in mind, you won't be living in a fashionable area or have much spending money, but you'd live.
I can work 80 hours a week on minimum wage and live on $30k a year and even be in a decent apartment. Why can't others?
I can work 40 hours a week on minimum wage and live on $15k a year while splitting a not-very-nice 2 bedroom apartment with three other people. Why can't others?
We can run through the math if you'd like.
Keep in mind, you won't be living in a fashionable area or have much spending money, but you'd live.
Besides the fact that it's LUDICROUS to work 80 hours a week, it's nearly impossible to find that much work, you'd have to work 2 full time jobs, and finding 2 that would work around eachother is also nearly impossible. And how would you live in a 2 bedroom apartment with 2 other people? You wanna talk about math, unless 1 of those people are a couple and share a room, that's not possible. Min. wage is NOT a living wage.
Is it good for the human mind to spend a third of your life "walking with a stick and holding it up straight"?
I think that it is a MAJOR problem in our society that most seem to not be able to find MEANINGFUL work.
Thus the question begs, WHO are we working for?
You raise a valid point.
Doing meaningful work in a modern era more and more requires a good education.
With mechanization the 1000 guys that did "meaningful work" at a factory or construction site and so forth are now 100 guys and cranes, diggers, robots and so forth.
Then again, the world has always had "standing with a stick" type jobs and frankly not all jobs are meaningful. You go, you collect your check and you do meaningful things with the other hours in the day.
Besides the fact that it's LUDICROUS to work 80 hours a week, it's nearly impossible to find that much work, you'd have to work 2 full time jobs, and finding 2 that would work around eachother is also nearly impossible. And how would you live in a 2 bedroom apartment with 2 other people? You wanna talk about math, unless 1 of those people are a couple and share a room, that's not possible. Min. wage is NOT a living wage.
The entire problem with these conversations is that some parts of the US have living costs that are double if not triple or even quadruple what it costs to live in other parts of the country.
Where one of my kids goes to college the going rate for rent AND utilities of a shared house near campus is only $250/month. You can live in a town like that on $8/hour. If you live in San Francisco or NYC? No freakin' chance unless you are getting some sort of support\help beyond your own income or working insane hours and living in your uninsured car.
Besides the fact that it's LUDICROUS to work 80 hours a week, it's nearly impossible to find that much work, you'd have to work 2 full time jobs, and finding 2 that would work around eachother is also nearly impossible. And how would you live in a 2 bedroom apartment with 2 other people? You wanna talk about math, unless 1 of those people are a couple and share a room, that's not possible. Min. wage is NOT a living wage.
I have a very good friend who works 80 hours a week all the time. Sure, it's for his only employer, and he makes overtime, but he's been doing it for well over a year now.
When I was going to a four year university, following junior college, I had school, I had an internship and I worked as a waiter. Maybe I'm just so exceptional, I don't understand the common person. No, that's not it, I just decided to make certain things a priority and sacrifice. It was a CHOICE. Apparently, others don't want to make this choice.
You really don't understand how four adults (even all straight males) can live in a two bedroom apartment? Well, that explains a lot. Apparently, your definition of "living" means a private room, cell phone, money to eat out for dinner, vacations, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
The entire problem with these conversations is that some parts of the US have living costs that are double if not triple or even quadruple what it costs to live in other parts of the country.
No, it's not even that. He can't even wrap his head around the idea of two adults sharing a room. I'm guessing he feels that is below human standards. Talk about first world problems.
I have a very good friend who works 80 hours a week all the time. Sure, it's for his only employer, and he makes overtime, but he's been doing it for well over a year now.
When I was going to a four year university, following junior college, I had school, I had an internship and I worked as a waiter. Maybe I'm just so exceptional, I don't understand the common person. No, that's not it, I just decided to make certain things a priority and sacrifice. It was a CHOICE. Apparently, others don't want to make this choice.
You really don't understand how four adults (even all straight males) can live in a two bedroom apartment? Well, that explains a lot. Apparently, your definition of "living" means a private room, cell phone, money to eat out for dinner, vacations, etc.
No, it's not even that. He can't even wrap his head around the idea of two adults sharing a room. I'm guessing he feels that is below human standards. Talk about first world problems.
Cell phone, eating out, vacations, no. But yes, every adult deserves a private room. What you're describing as "living" sounds more like prison. Also, how do you have a good friend who works 80 hours a week? When would you see this person? After work and sleep they wouldn't have a second of free time. Screw wasting your life in an office, 40 hours a week is terrible enough, 80 hours a week? May as well kill yourself.
Cell phone, eating out, vacations, no. But yes, every adult deserves a private room. What you're describing as "living" sounds more like prison.
ROFLMAO.
The large part of the world's population don't live with private rooms. And even in western cultures, this has only been something relatively recent. People have lived for thousands of years without having private rooms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by westboundrambler
Also, how do you have a good friend who works 80 hours a week? When would you see this person? After work and sleep they wouldn't have a second of free time.
He works for CenterPoint energy and puts in about 12 to 14 hours a day and usually only takes off on Saturdays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by westboundrambler
Screw wasting your life in an office, 40 hours a week is terrible enough, 80 hours a week? May as well kill yourself.
Yeah, screw improving your life, because other people owe it to you.
My buddy doesn't have a college degree. He's in his early 20's and has worked his way to where he's making over $100k working those crazy hours. He's about to get married, and his plan is simple, he's knocking it out hard, putting away a lot of money, purchasing a house this month and plans to continue doing this for a few years so he can have the house paid off in 10 years and still a fat savings account. He's putting 25% down on this home he's buying and his car and his fiancee's car are both paid off.
Sure, he could sit around and moan and complain that he can't afford the house he wants. He could say how it's unfair it will take him 30 years to pay off his mortgage. He could sit around and complain how it's not fair people who were "given" a college degree have more opportunities to make more money, but that's not what he's doing. He's making sacrifices for his future, and in 10 years, he'll be sitting pretty being in his early 30's with a paid off home and then working 40 hours a week means he'll be living a good lifestyle.
Yeah, he's pretty stupid isn't he. He should be spending his time saying the government needs to provide opportunities for him instead of busting his hump to make the life he wants.
Sigh. I've done it before (and once even 100+ for several weeks), its not living a life, its living to work. The idea that that is the solution when we have unemployed folks is ludicrous.
The large part of the world's population don't live with private rooms. And even in western cultures, this has only been something relatively recent. People have lived for thousands of years without having private rooms.
He works for CenterPoint energy and puts in about 12 to 14 hours a day and usually only takes off on Saturdays.
Yeah, screw improving your life, because other people owe it to you.
My buddy doesn't have a college degree. He's in his early 20's and has worked his way to where he's making over $100k working those crazy hours. He's about to get married, and his plan is simple, he's knocking it out hard, putting away a lot of money, purchasing a house this month and plans to continue doing this for a few years so he can have the house paid off in 10 years and still a fat savings account. He's putting 25% down on this home he's buying and his car and his fiancee's car are both paid off.
Sure, he could sit around and moan and complain that he can't afford the house he wants. He could say how it's unfair it will take him 30 years to pay off his mortgage. He could sit around and complain how it's not fair people who were "given" a college degree have more opportunities to make more money, but that's not what he's doing. He's making sacrifices for his future, and in 10 years, he'll be sitting pretty being in his early 30's with a paid off home and then working 40 hours a week means he'll be living a good lifestyle.
Yeah, he's pretty stupid isn't he. He should be spending his time saying the government needs to provide opportunities for him instead of busting his hump to make the life he wants.
And people wonder why some have more than others?
Someone is marrying your buddy? What? Over the last year he has had about 52 days off according to you. Who would marry someone they barely know?
And why the heck would any company work someone for 80 hrs a week? With overtime they're paying him far more then just hiring an additional person. That alone makes your story kinda suspicious.
Heres whats going to happen. Your "buddy" (who again has only 52 days off a year-sundays) is going to either burn out, and quit, put a bullet in his noggin, or his fiance is going to leave him for someone that realizes that having a life with someone has some value.
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Well, that explains a lot. Apparently, your definition of "living" means a private room, cell phone, money to eat out for dinner, vacations, etc.
