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Old 06-26-2015, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,889,092 times
Reputation: 11259

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Well, if any natural medicine proponent can tell me how to cure the heart tumor cancer on my 9 year old beagle, who I am going to have to put down soon, you will have a convert.

 
Old 06-26-2015, 03:34 PM
 
26,660 posts, read 13,746,362 times
Reputation: 19118
I don't see how or why this has to be an either or scenario. All that the op's link said was that a lot of scientific research is wrong due to bias, money, control and other issues. This shouldn't be a surprise for people. It doesn't mean all scientific research is wrong nor does it mean all alternative therapies are right. I tend to find good in both western and alternative medicine. All this means is that we should not always take studies at face value and that we should be looking at the bigger picture instead of saying things like, "the science is settled" or making appeals to authority or telling people that they "don't understand science" when they question certain studies or lack of studies. Politics, money, power and control all can and are used to manipulate information, including skewing the results of studies. Why would this surprise any adult? I would hope that most people are capable of critical thinking and are able to dig deeper when they have questions. That's my take away from what the op posted.
 
Old 06-26-2015, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,759,995 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I don't see how or why this has to be an either or scenario. All that the op's link said was that a lot of scientific research is wrong due to bias, money, control and other issues. This shouldn't be a surprise for people. It doesn't mean all scientific research is wrong nor does it mean all alternative therapies are right. I tend to find good in both western and alternative medicine. All this means is that we should not always take studies at face value and that we should be looking at the bigger picture instead of saying things like, "the science is settled" or making appeals to authority or telling people that they "don't understand science" when they question certain studies or lack of studies. Politics, money, power and control all can and are used to manipulate information, including skewing the results of studies. Why would this surprise any adult? I would hope that most people are capable of critical thinking and are able to dig deeper when they have questions. That's my take away from what the op posted.
No, that's not "all" her link says. It starts out with this: "The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness."

It gives no data to prove that figure. In fact, no examples are given for any of the rather inflammatory statements, such as "In their quest for telling a compelling story, scientists too often sculpt data to fit their preferred theory of the world. Or they retrofit hypotheses to fit their data."

We're just supposed to believe the editor of the rag that published Wakefield's study. Maybe they're feeling a little remorse for the monster that created.
 
Old 06-26-2015, 05:43 PM
 
26,660 posts, read 13,746,362 times
Reputation: 19118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
No, that's not "all" her link says. It starts out with this: "The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness."

It gives no data to prove that figure. In fact, no examples are given for any of the rather inflammatory statements, such as "In their quest for telling a compelling story, scientists too often sculpt data to fit their preferred theory of the world. Or they retrofit hypotheses to fit their data."

We're just supposed to believe the editor of the rag that published Wakefield's study. Maybe they're feeling a little remorse for the monster that created.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I said. You don't have the believe that scientific data could be biased, manipulated and influenced by money and power but I personally find that to be a naïve stance. It seems pretty obvious to me that there is a lot of room for corruption in any field and that would include the field of science.
 
Old 06-26-2015, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,759,995 times
Reputation: 35920
Frankly, the Lancet editorial sounds like an apology/excuse for the Wakefield mess. They're the ones who published him.
 
Old 06-27-2015, 01:57 AM
 
Location: California
37,135 posts, read 42,214,810 times
Reputation: 35013
Apparently people don't recognize that "natural health" is a business too.

Of course lot's of things in "science" are wrong. We work with the knowledge we have and we don't have it all. Nothing "natural" has it all either and I think we are all grateful for science even if it is only science and not MAGIC.
 
Old 06-27-2015, 03:05 AM
mm4
 
5,711 posts, read 3,978,721 times
Reputation: 1941
"Protection from some childhood vaccines can wear off over time." -CDC
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/adults/rec-vac/index.html?s_cid=cs_650

Natural immunity never does. And contracting childhood illnesses, which confer subsequent natural immunity, while young is relatively benign--unlike contracting them when older.

The implications are clear: The only people who logically should be receiving one of the vaccines, if administration is an imperative at all, are older individuals who never acquired the childhood disease during the primary years.

Last edited by mm4; 06-27-2015 at 03:29 AM..
 
Old 06-27-2015, 03:19 AM
 
128 posts, read 148,663 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Life and Death in The Antebellum Era 1800-1850 | Legacy.com

Read the average life expectancy number----37. That was where we were at after using traditional natural medicine for thousands of years.
Life expectancy is such an dull point. Its about quality of life over quantity. We live longer less productive lives these days...probably due in part to the lethargic pharmaceuticals we intake and the lifestyle we live today.
 
Old 06-27-2015, 03:38 AM
mm4
 
5,711 posts, read 3,978,721 times
Reputation: 1941
Quote:
Originally Posted by emilybh View Post
Needless to say, all the thousands of veterans walking around with Gulf War Syndrome that never saw any action is proof enough vaccines are more harmful than beneficial and that all the "science" that proved those vaccines were supposedly safe were wrong.
USAF Captain Joyce Riley speaks in detail on her own observational experiences with mandatory (and often mysterious, and experimental) vaccines and Gulf War Syndrome. She also relates receiving "10 shots in one day." What doctors described as a demyelinating illness followed in 1991. She was never exposed to the theater. She has stage 4 cancer now:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5dUMPeJMtA

Starts @ min. 48:00

Last edited by mm4; 06-27-2015 at 03:49 AM..
 
Old 06-27-2015, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Pérouges
586 posts, read 831,099 times
Reputation: 1346
Quote:
Originally Posted by emilybh View Post
the esteemed UK medical journal "The Lancet" ......
Sorry, the rest of your post was pretty much nullified with this sentence. It isn't esteemed, it has a history of sensationalism and in fact of downright lying which it has admitted too.

The British, General Medical Council and British Medical Association in conjunction even have an advisory for their members to seek external verification on the Lancet's articles as they are frankly, not to be trusted.
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