Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Confederate flag was the national symbol of the Confederacy.
Lots of people disagreed with the South breaking away to form a new nation.
Those people would be statists.
The hypocrisy of us declaring ourselves a free and independent state when we broke bonds with Britain and then turning around in less than one century to forbid the South doing exactly the same thing is breathtaking.
The South was militarily defeated by the North but their right to be free and independent should have never been questioned.
The South lost more than 260,000 of their young men who served under the Confederate flag.
To say the Confederacy was illegitimate because they were militarily defeated ignores our own history and what might well have been a very different outcome to the Revolutionary War.
To say the lives lost by the South fighting to be free of the North mean nothing because the North was successful in denying the South its independence is as morally reprehensible as anything ever done in the South to blacks.
Now, what is essentially a memorial to lost Southern soldiers and the South`s crushed attempt to be free of the North, is attacked as a symbol of racism at par with the swastika.
And you didn`t answer my question.
All that is great for Confederate propaganda materials. It doesn't change anything about the racist ideology that backed the need to secede. Celebrating that racist ideology by celebrating a flag that represented it does nothing but serve as reminder that many Americans are okay w/ honoring their past as long as other Americans can agree to forget about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve40th
Never let e good crisis go to waste. The flag issue is all over the internet. Lots of BS. the State went to court ten years ago and brought it down and put it ona memorial. Get over it. Why wasnt this important before Wednseday night.
Hawaiis flag is a English Union Jack. Yes, the country that tried to kill us off. If they did, we would not have anything to say here.
Mississippi has a flag with its history going back to Civil War. But its not an issue.
There were over ten different flags the south used for battle flags, three approved. Do you even know which one is at our capitol without googling it.?
Get educated on our flags within US before trying to tear it down.
While we are at it, letz get rid of KKK, Black Panthers etc. They are hate groups which keep agitating hate like Al Sharpton. BOOKER T WASHINGTON, wrote of these types in 1909 era. They are the biggest root to hate and racism we have. Including Obama who was brought up on Black Theology. Look it up
And what "theology" are people who are brought up worshipping the racist roots of any Confederate flag classified under? All of those flags were created explicitly as banners for a racist ideology. It doesn't matter which Confederate flag people choose. ALL OF THEM are symbols of the Confederate ideology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
The navy jack of the Confederate States of America's navy is the banner of the most racist event in American history? That is the stars and bars flag flown at SC's capitol...the CSA navy jack, not the CSA national flag. And the Civil War was not the most racist event in US history, since it was white people killing white people. I'd go with Manifest Destiny pretty much obliterating all the remaining native American tribes, the various post-13th Amendment rules that allowed the Chinese to still be enslaved or indentured by law, or the internment of the Japanese Americans at Manzanaar, where it was white people attacking/killing/oppressing non-white people in specific events.
ALL CONFEDERATE flags are symbols of their racist ideology. It doesn't matter which flag is flown; they are all equally abhorrent, and reminders of the "racism" that Conservatives keep saying Black people should forget.
Quote:
Secession sought to preserve state laws that allowed something everyone agreed was legal just a decade or two before. But at no point from 1787 until 1860 did South Carolina or any other former member of the CSA "become a slave" state. The original United States of 1787 was a slave nation, and the less industrial, more agrarian South didn't adapt to the mechanized age as fast as their northern counterparts. Yes, the secession was to defend the state right to keep slavery legal, but that was preservation of a system in place for the prior 150 or so years, and that system enslaved white people from Ireland and the Chinese as much as it did blacks from Africa (sold by conquering black warlords in Western Africa to white slavers for more guns, kinda like today, just with slower ships and less Islam).
For reference, here's another flag that celebrates slavery in all of the United States:
This entire section is nonsense, especially the bolded. Show me the codification of Chinese and Irish slavery in American law in the 19th century.
Quote:
No, there's no letting the past die because the past is immutable. Slavery existed in the United States, nothing can change that now. Approximately 350,000 white Union soldiers died fighting for the victorious, anti-slavery side of the war. Nothing can change that. The party that is most castigated in 2015 for anti-black racism (falsely) has a better voting track record on every single civil rights law ever voted on at the federal level than their Democrat counterparts. Nothing can change that.
Tribalism is a simple fact of human nature. No society has ever evolved their culture to be above it, not even the ones superior to the United States. One of the easiest and most common tribes people choose is "folks who look like me." White Americans of the last 40 years did not invent that concept, Mother Nature did back when humans began walking upright and testing out all the cool stuff their opposing thumbs could do.
The President's error is in making one set of Americans hate/blame/antagonize another set of Americans. He does it with unequal use of his weaponized IRS and DoJ, he does it when he makes polarized speeches without knowing any facts, and he does it when he singles out free speech from people he does not like as somehow a danger/enemy to the Republic. The President should be attempting to help different sets of Americans get along, not choosing a side and castigating the other side. He's the President of the entire country, not just people he likes.
More nonsense. There is nothing MORE polarizing in America right now than the continued support of any CONFEDERATE flag. These flags were created explicitly to back the ideology of dehumanizing and enslaving Black Americans. There is no getting around that. If Conservatives were serious about being post-racial, they'd get rid of that stark reminder of what their "Southern Pride" represented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
Facts don`t matter?
The North was not fighting to end slavery, but the South, and particularly individual Confederate soldiers, were hell-bent on preserving the slavery we know the North wasn`t trying to end?
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
The most visible symbol of racism would be colors worn by gang members who sell drugs in low income black neighborhoods.
None of what you just wrote makes any sense. If you tried to discuss the issue at hand, instead creating strawmen, I could at least point you in the right direction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
You have no idea what you are talking about. The United States of America was a slave country. The US flag was a slave flag. In fact, it was the BRITISH who wanted to abolish slavery, and the British did abolish slavery long before the United States. Every single colony in the United States at our independence had slaves in them. And some of the Northern States still allowed slavery during the entirety of the Civil War. The four "Border states" were slave-states. Had the Civil War been fought to abolish slavery, the four border states would either have joined the Confederacy, or would have abolished slavery in 1861.
The truth is, the North did not want to abolish slavery, they didn't care about the slaves at all, Lincoln didn't care about the slaves. Lincoln was a racist, who thought blacks were sub-human. He said repeatedly that he didn't care if slavery continued or not, that he only wanted to keep the union together.
The Northern soldiers did not fight a war to end slavery. The Southern soldiers did not fight a war to perpetuate slavery. Just because the historians have tried to make the Civil War about slavery to serve their agendas, doesn't make it so.
The only reason slavery was actually abolished in the south, was because Lincoln was losing the Civil War, and he was afraid of European intention(which came VERY CLOSE to happening). And secondly, because he realized that by allying with blacks, he could use them as soldiers, in a war that the public was turning against.
It wasn't until May of 1863, more than two years after the war began, that Lincoln even began allowing blacks to become soldiers in the Union Army. And black soldiers in the Union Army were paid half of what white soldiers were paid.
None of that changes the fact that the Confederate States were created to explicitly continue the enslavement and dehumanization of Black Americans. For whatever mistakes the North was making at the time, their intention was never to claim that Black slavery was a fundamental component of their ideology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern man
Some folks up north profited from the slave trade. No one ever mentions this little fact.
And? Did they create a flag and ideology to support their actions and then have their descendents rally around and display those symbols? No. Then your point is meaningless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN
How many murders did Chicago not having a confederate flag stop this past or any weekend. Swatting at a knat and swallowing a camel. Your racist attitude is bright and clear.
Now let's look at this question in another way which could be considered racist. How many fewer murders would Chicago have each weekend if Chicago had fewer blacks? Do you have an answer? Clean up your own state before you start pointing a finger at other places. Looks to me like you have a lot of room for improvement. And while we are at it; doesn't Chicago have laws against having guns? How has that stopped the killing?
We are so used to seeing murder statistics about Detroit, Baltimore, and Chicago that the only thing new about 9 murders was that it was in the South and committed by a white person.
More strawmen arguments that have nothing to do with the point at hand. You can't claim that someone else is keeping racism alive when you're PROUDLY FLYING THE MOST RACIST SYMBOL in American history.
The only reason this is an issue right now is because the Democrats and the left want to stir up as much racial conflict and animosity as they can. This flag is being flown on a memorial in South Carolina and is not stopping us or anyone from getting past the race issue.
Clearly, the Democrats and the left do not want to get past the race issue, as their actions around this flag and many other episodes have routinely demonstrated.
How is the President talking about race in this country divisive, but flying the most racist symbol in American history acceptable?
As a Black male, I don't want it outlawed. Let anyone display it. That way it serves the same purpose as a sex offender registry, and you know how to deal with them.
I am more for people understanding and having there facts straight prior to bring division to the table. This one flag is being targeted again due to a horrible shooting in SC. Why dont we focus on all the flags and fix them all. Why one?
I am a white male, so what. I am also a retired Vet, an SCV member due to my great grandfather serving i civil war as a private. He owned no slaves and was a farmer. He was told what to do and did it, along witb 3000 black confederate soldiers.
People need to get over **** and move on. The flag is on a memorial just like many other memorials throughout the country...
Freedom of speech and Statez rights....
Move on?
Does that include those who insist that the south will rise again?
Why haven't they moved on?
Does that include those who use that flag as a memorial to a time they wish still existed?
Why haven't they moved on?
I constantly hear that people should move on from slavery and yet rarely are those who advocate for a return to segregatin, etc. told to move on.
As a Black male, I don't want it outlawed. Let anyone display it. It's kind of like a sex offender registry to me.
I don't think anybody is asking for a ban... people should have a choice to demonstrate their idiocy. However, as a government speech it is a no-no. Much like a recent case about putting the flag on Texas license plate. State of TX argued against it and won.
It really irks me that people will go out of their way to make issues out of non issues.
If your biggest concern at the end of the day is the Confederate Flag.....then you have no issues.
It's not black against white......it's person against person. It's the hatred and anger that people have for one another.
It's the mind set of I am better then you.
It's the mind set that I drive a 80k vehicle, I am better then you.
It's the mind set that I live in a million dollar home, I am better then you.
It should not matter what Color, Race, Sex, Religion, Age or how much money....
It does only because you and I make it matter. YOU and I......
It's not only the White Person's fault. It's not only the Black Person's fault......it's both.
A Flag is not going to make a difference......a word is not going to make a difference.
You and I -will make a difference.
And yet here we are, having mostly Conservatives, bringing up that we need to stop mentioning race relations because it's divisive while they fly their proud support of one of America's most racist moments. You can't have it both ways. Either you're okay w/ the race-based divisiveness or you're not.
I don't think anybody is asking for a ban... people should have a choice to demonstrate their idiocy. However, as a government speech it is a no-no. Much like a recent case about putting the flag on Texas license plate. State of TX argued against it and won.
I agree that it has no place on any official government buildings. I've never personally known anyone who displayed it that wasn't an outright racist so I personally have no use for them. Might as well be members of NAMBLA or something. They will certainly be treated the same way.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
