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What Hillery proposes re health care is similar to the one Mitt Romney did for Massachusetts and it works quite well.
If Hillary's proposal could work as well as what we had when we lived in Mass. then it is certainly a vast improvement over what is going on in the other states I've lived (and currently live) in. We had reasonable premiums and choice of doctors in Massachusetts while here in Washington we have ridiculously high premiums, high deductibles and very little choice of doctors. We are hoping to move back to New England and Mass. is our first choice because of their healthcare system. I'm not a big fan of Hillary (at all) but at least she's making an attempt. I've heard stories like the OP's before from others in the UK. Has anyone heard a Canadian perspective? The Canadians that my husband has spoken to are very happy with their healthcare, but I'd like to hear from others, too.
Thanks to the OP for an interesting thread
Anonymous, you said that everyone would have to pay high premiums to subsidize care for the elderly and poor. That's not true.
No, I didn't.
I didn't say everyone would pay high premiums. I said that low-risk people would pay high premiums.
Nor did I say healthcare would be subsidized "for the elderly and poor," I said it would be subsidized for high-risk individuals. I did use elderly and poor as examples of high-risk individuals, but a high-risk individual could equally be wealthy and young.
[edit: and to clarify, I didn't say "tax-subsidized" or "government-subsidized." I'm referring to the inherent risk pooling in insurance as a "subsidy."]
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You may not have said "Medicare" and "Medicaid" but the "high-risk" individuals you refer to are, and will continue to be, covered by the government programs, whereas others will get subsidies for buying private insurance.
Not necessarily. High risk individuals are not necessarily covered by medicare or medicaid, which is why I didn't bring up those programs. I am not an expert on this topic by any means, I was just sharing one key idea that I understood to be a mechanism by which Hillary believes she can lower healthcare costs.
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And, sorry, it is NOT someone's right to refuse to buy coverage if it's been made affordable and then expect the people who HAVE bought coverage to take care of them.
Don't be sorry. You are entitled to your opinion.
To clarify my opinion, since we seem to be having communication problems, is that it ought to be someone's right to refuse coverage.
Whether someone expects to get "free coverage" or not is a completely different idea altogether, and shouldn't necessarily be associated with refusal of coverage.
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I live in Texas and I can't get away with not having car insurance even though I've never had an accident in my 28 years of driving. The law says I have to have it and they check every time I renew my auto registration. And the state has done nothing to make car insurance affordable.
I disagree, there is a lot done to make car insurance affordable - that is, affordable for bad drivers. Not for good drivers. Just like this health insurance scheme.
Let's say you and Joe Sixpack are with the same auto insurance company. You may be responsible, and Joe Sixpack might be a former NASCAR driver, who likes to smoke meth and race his Camaro.
If Joe keeps getting in wrecks, his premium will go up - but so will yours. You pay more than your "fair share" in order to ensure that auto insurance remains relatively affordable for bad drivers like him. This is just like this health insurance scheme, which is forcing more low-risk (and therefore profitable) policies into the pool.
Last edited by anonymous; 01-22-2008 at 03:39 PM..
Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are broke. There is no money. Read the GAO's report. Hillary is making promises that she can't keep. We need to transition people out of government run programs like this and allow young people to make their own choices about retirement and healthcare. Remove the regulations and let the market set the price. I can't name a single program that the federal government has taken over that is better than under the private market.
It's a lot of information to take it, but the Democrats seem to be ignoring all of this with their promises. Subsidizing anything creates more of it.
The problem is that "the market" won't insure people such as myself who have serious, incurable diseases. And the private sector is getting increasingly picky about paying for things and insuring people who aren't sick but have risk factors.
Health care/coverage should not be a big business, pure and simple. Health care CEOs are earning millions of dollars annually in salary and bonuses for denying care and coverage to the sick, which ensures the company healthy profits (pun intended). I don't begrudge anyone a fair wage but when the profits are exorbitant and people are dying because of it, there's a serious ethical problem.
If left alone, the Social Security trust fund would not be in trouble. The problem is that the politicians have been dipping into it to pay for all sorts of other things. That has to end and be paid back; a few simple adjustments would also sustain the fund.
As for there being no money, well, I receive my disability every month and my Medicare coverage starts March 1. Let's face it, the ENTIRE government is broke but they can always find money for expensive ventures such as, uh, the War! I know I didn't have a specific War deduction taken from my paycheck for decades! Generations of people have paid into these programs and the government is simply going to have to honor the agreement.
Look into Canada, they went to this type of healthcare and Canadians are coming to the US to get away from it and have surgerys etc.
People dont want more government in their lives but want this?
Read some facts into Canada's problems.
The government tells you if you can have a heart bypass, they tell you if you can have a kidney transplant, they tell you what meds you will take and it goes on and on.
Besides being just another freebie, we cannot afford it. All we need to do is force our congress to kick the butts of healthcare cost, medicine manufacturers and of course the insurance industry to do a better job and stop screwing us over. They need to CONTROL those groups as they are not being controlled and can set prices on us.
Something else Hillary is not being truthful about is the fact that if you can afford insurance and have insurance you wont qualify for her little freebie plan. That is not right, it is not fair and no one has asked her about it.
She is lying, she says it is healthcare for all, but she has seemed to forget it is NOT FOR ALL, it is for those who cannot afford healthcare and those are already sucking our system dry with freebies.
Fair is fair, if it applies to every single American and not just her select group of people.
Besides I do not want the government telling me I cannot have a needed surgery because they say so.
The less they are in your lives the better.
I say HECK NO ! Its a disaster and another freebie program.
Look at China, they have something similar and are selling body parts all over the world without the consent of the person.
Another thought is how is she going to pay for this?
I know, robinhood to the rescue, take it away from the upper middle class and the rich and give it to those who wont get a job so they can have insurance.
If our government can come up with billions of dollars for military, why is it so difficult to come up with the money to take care of American people?
I was born with a disability and depend on government health care, as no insurance company will touch me with a preexisting condition. And privatizing health care makes it much worse, not better. More paperwork, more denials for things I absolutely need to survive.
Has anyone seen Sicko, Micheal Moore's film about American Medical care? He keeps it light & a little too entertaining (I suspect to keep people's short attention span) and there's only so much room for the information that SHOULD be presented, but he makes some good points.
"Besides I do not want the government telling me I cannot have a needed surgery because they say so."
Well, that's fine, but the private insurance companies tell people ALL OF THE TIME that they can't have surgeries or treatments unless the people themselves pay for them. Several years ago, my insurance company said they wouldn't pay for my "well woman" exam because I had a "pre-existing condition." No, I didn't -- it was just my annual exam. Turned out, my "pre-existing condition" was being female. I've also been denied medications I needed and forced to take cheaper meds. that didn't work well.
Furthermore, I resent wealthy insurance companies telling me I can't have health insurance because I have a serious disease. They only want to insure people they don't think will use their insurance much.
If you didn't like insurance companies, wouldn't that make Hillary's plan the worst one available?
I mean, isn't she proposing that we:
a. Give (more) federal taxpayer money to insurance companies
and
b. Make all Americans take out health insurance policies
Am I understanding her plan correctly? Doesn't this put a lot more power into the hands of the insurance companies?
"Besides I do not want the government telling me I cannot have a needed surgery because they say so."
Well, that's fine, but the private insurance companies tell people ALL OF THE TIME that they can't have surgeries or treatments unless the people themselves pay for them. Several years ago, my insurance company said they wouldn't pay for my "well woman" exam because I had a "pre-existing condition." No, I didn't -- it was just my annual exam. Turned out, my "pre-existing condition" was being female. I've also been denied medications I needed and forced to take cheaper meds. that didn't work well.
Furthermore, I resent wealthy insurance companies telling me I can't have health insurance because I have a serious disease. They only want to insure people they don't think will use their insurance much.
Insurance companies need controlled too. But if the governement controls your healthcare you are in their hands, something I do not want.
Also, the poster above, if you have a health care issue that you cannot work then I agree that you need healthcare, I am not for providing healthcare for those who will not try on their own and will not take responsibility for themselves and then expect those of us who do to cover for them.
Insurance companies are the ones screwing us all over, the government needs to control them and NOT US.
The need to assure that everyone has adequate access to healthcare is very obvious – while everyone does have access, the desire to assist in making sure such healthcare is paid for is what this country is debating. Some want the government to take over payment of all healthcare and for the US to go to a government run system. Others want a “single payer” system with everyone paying a portion of their income for a “basic”, one size fits all system. Still others believe the government should stay out of any type of a socialistic type endeavor. Then, there are those who believe we can actually lower the cost of health insurance and make it more affordable, thereby more accessible, to the masses.
I have been communicating with a number of my Congressional Representatives with my ideas. A couple of them have had their staff members follow-up with me for more discussion. I would like to share what I have put forth to them:
1)Pass legislation that would allow Health Insurance companies to sell their products across state lines. Currently, states regulate the sales of health insurance and, as a result, the cost of a policy from one side of the country to the other, can vary greatly. By allowing polices to be sold across state lines, would create bigger “pooling” of risk, and bring down costs.
2)Pass legislation (currently in the Senate), that would allow professional groups to create their own insurance pools – thereby allowing members of these groups to buy health insurance at affordable rates. Currently, this is not done nor allowed.
3)]Pass legislation limiting health insurance companies ability to deny health insurance because of pre-existing conditions
4)Pass legislation limiting punitive damage awards for malpractice claims. This would reduce a physicians overhead to be passed through to their patients
5)Amend the tax laws to allow those currently paying for health insurance, to FULLY DEDUCT the cost of all the premiums they pay – for health, dental and vision
6)Establish a means test for those who are financially unable to pay for health insurance or who do not have employer sponsored or employer fully paid health insurance. By using the system, currently in place for Medicaid, those that fall below a certain income level (based on family size), would get a GRANT (for example only - $5000.00) that would be used to purchase, from a private health insurance company, a health insurance plan of the individuals choice. By doing this, there would be an entire new pool of insured who would be offered insurance and affordable rates.
The above, in my opinion would serve multiple purposes: A) Reduce the cost of health insurance, B) Allow those who cannot afford health insurance to get it, and C) Keep the government out of the health insurance business and allow private enterprise to compete.
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I've also been denied medications I needed and forced to take cheaper meds. that didn't work well.
