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the business may be secular, but the owner is christian, and its the owners religious freedoms that come into question when sued. and it isnt like these people are not serving gay at all, just a very limited market, gay weddings. and dont forget that any wedding is a contract, and if a business refuses to sign a contract, why should they get sued?
You then put the courts in the position of having to weigh closely held religious beliefs. When does of religious freedom become discrimination? Can Jewish business owners refuse to serve Baptists? Can a muslim owned store not serve women?
If your religious beliefs would keep you from offering public accommodations to everyone equally then you probably shouldn't be in business. Open a not-for-profit social enterprise where you don't have to accommodate people that you don't like.
I am all for gay people not being allowed to have marriage ceremonies in private churches that define a policy backed by their religious beliefs that bans the practice.
The reason the gay want married in church is to defy God .no other reason period.
If some one want's to get married they can go to the judge and have it done and be done with it .
Being dnoe in church is looking for their endorcmet and knowing full well the church doe not endorce gay marraige is defiance and in a sense Spittting God in the face , see we can defy your law and you are not going to do any thing abou it.
It is clearly not reverence for God, but out right rebellion to God .
Lust is not love ,and being gay is selfish lust, nothing less . the fact is is based on sex is proof enough.
Should the church condecend to this ,it is no repersentation of God's approval.
God does not teach lust.
That lust is Satan's tool.
And it is no surprize that many Satan worshippers are gay.
It is bad enough that people with no actual reverence for God, marry in church ,just to be politically correct so to speak.
Jesus said even idle converadtion will be required of us in judgment , so I do not doubt that whether one is a believer or not vows made are as binding spoken before public or in private.
Marriage is God's creation a man and a woman and the binding is as one flesh .
She is bound to the man for as long as he lives, together or apart.
If your so intent on dissolving what marriage is why bother marrying, except to insult God.
You then put the courts in the position of having to weigh closely held religious beliefs. When does of religious freedom become discrimination? Can Jewish business owners refuse to serve Baptists? Can a muslim owned store not serve women?
If your religious beliefs would keep you from offering public accommodations to everyone equally then you probably shouldn't be in business. Open a not-for-profit social enterprise where you don't have to accommodate people that you don't like.
does the muslim religion prevent men from serving women? no it doesnt.
does the jewish religion prevent jews from serving christians? no it doesnt
there are no religious laws allowing that kind of discrimination. however, there are laws against homosexuality in christianity, judaism, and islam. hence these religions have an objection to gay marriage. if you are gay and walk into a muslim restaurant, they should serve you. but if you are gay, and ask the owner of that muslim restaurant to cater your gay wedding, the owner should be able to refuse the request on the grounds that he objects to gay weddings, same with the jewish owner, and the christian owner. religious freedom does not give one a license to discriminate against people at will. however it should be honored in certain instances, for instance it has been ruled that christian business owners, do not have to provide healthcare plans that provide birth control or abortion as a benefit. thus it is religious freedom as long as the owners are of a religion that objects to such things. but there again it is limited in scope, as those business owners still have to provide a healthcare plan under the ACA.
same thing with denying service to gay weddings, it would be limited in scope to gay weddings or other non traditional weddings(IE those not between one man and one woman).
besides this can be about contract law as well, both parties have to sign documents saying what services will be rendered, and the business owner should be able to refuse to sign a contract providing services he does not want to provide. remember both parties have to sign said contract showing that both partied agree to the terms outlined in the contract.
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I'm not an expert on this my any means, but since England has an official church, there could be grounds for them to do this.
There aren't in America. The First Amendment would protect churches from being required to partake in this. Obviously, churches are still bound to the law, but same sex marriage was legalized by methods that the government has power over, which is the courts. Church marriages are still legal, but they're a the discretion of the church.
Although....
This could be a basis for challenging the tax exemptions that churches enjoy under the first amendment right now. If those tax exemptions go away, you will see many churches go under (especially since church members would also lose their own income tax deductions for tithing).
so either we have religious freedom in this country, or we dont. if a christian business owner cannot refuse a particular request based on freedom of religion, then we have no freedom of religion in this country anymore. its only a matter of time before someone sues the church to force them to have same sex marriages, or for congress to make laws going against the church, and then we may as well shut down all the churches in this country.
That's not how it works. Freedom isn't a do whatever you want ticket. It's why Muslims can't create Sharia Courts here. Secular law ALWAYS comes first.
It's agreed that government won't get involved inside the church. But being religious doesn't mean you're free to do anything you want and justify it with 'but Jesus said....' I've already said that business can refuse to participate in things that go against their faith, but denying basic service is no ok. A business is a secular institution, even if it's run by religious people. The business does not get special status.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6
Although....
This could be a basis for challenging the tax exemptions that churches enjoy under the first amendment right now. If those tax exemptions go away, you will see many churches go under (especially since church members would also lose their own income tax deductions for tithing).
I don't think so. All non-profit organizations are given tax exempt status. Churches technically qualify as non-profit.
If I were gay, I would want someone that supports my marriage to marry me.
I agree.
If I were a homosexual, I would want a photographer, baker and florist who were willing participants in my wedding, and I certainly wouldn`t want to try to force a religious person to violate their faith, but this isn`t about same-sex weddings.
This is about controlling thought.
If one person is allowed to think freely then others will also want to think freely, and if free thinking people start talking to each other then they will start asking questions and that can only lead to the breakdown of thought control.
so you dont think comply or close isnt forcing? either way it still means the end of religious freedoms in this country. my point is that these people were sued, and LOST in court, and were either fined or forced to close their business.
That's correct. Those businesses were undermined and driven under the weight of legal fees, which was the goal vs winning the lawsuit.
If there is a lawsuit here in the U.S., wonder if it will be a gay couple suing against a Mosque?
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