Taxing the Wealthy (Limbaugh, stats, March, dollar)
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I'm not exactly sure which part of NY you are in, but in the NYC metro area, that kind of money doesn't make you wealthy. Not even close. Maybe if you are single you could be a little extravagant, but once you pay the high mortgage with the high property taxes, high state income tax (9%), retirement account, and 529s for each kid, there is not much left to throw around on "bling".
I'm in the 5 boroughs. I'm pretty secure in the knowledge of what things cost here.
I didn't say $350K is rich. I said if those who make $350K don't have a little extra money lying around, then they are poor financial managers.
$350 a year is $29K gross a month. Even if taxes were at 50%, they would still have at least $14K a month. Real Estate is high in NYC, extremely high. Few people pay upward of $5K a month for a place to live, even in NYC.
So lets say they are paying $6K for housing (which is far fetched to say the least, at least for people on that salary bracket). That's still $9K a month for other things. Additionally, there are limits to how much one is allowed to invest in 529s etc.
And then you take this argument out of NY, and you argument is even weaker.
Perhaps you should just rent until you can afford to buy a home? That's what people do in LA. A person who makes only $350K in NYC can't afford a home there -- but you can afford a nice little retirement rental in Arkansas.
That's nonesense. A person making $35, or $70 can't afford a home. A person making $350 most certainly can afford a home. Park Slope $1M or $2M, Manhattan in the $5K range.
Few people aspire to live the lifestyles of those featured on MTV Cribs. That's for the ostentatious folk who are making MILLIONS per year. And the amount of real estate available to those types, is also extremely limited.
I'm in the 5 boroughs. I'm pretty secure in the knowledge of what things cost here.
I didn't say $350K is rich. I said if those who make $350K don't have a little extra money lying around, then they are poor financial managers.
$350 a year is $29K gross a month. Even if taxes were at 50%, they would still have at least $14K a month. Real Estate is high in NYC, extremely high. Few people pay upward of $5K a month for a place to live, even in NYC.
So lets say they are paying $6K for housing (which is far fetched to say the least, at least for people on that salary bracket). That's still $9K a month for other things. Additionally, there are limits to how much one is allowed to invest in 529s etc.
And then you take this argument out of NY, and you argument is even weaker.
You really want me to break down my monthly expenditures for you?
If you have a family in the NYC area, it is very easy to spend more than $6K on housing. In a very good school district, 1.2 Mil buys you a modest 3000 sq ft colonial (built in 1971). If you put 20% down, at 6%, your monthly mortgage payment is 6K. Add 2K for property taxes, 1K for utilities, 1k each 529 (x2) = 2k, 1k (total for 2 cars), each child is in preschool at 1k each = 2K, 2.5K into sep account, and 2K for student loan payments (was over 200K, I still owe 110K). Oh, and I almost forgot insurance. Between homeowners and auto we pay 9K per year, plus disability is another $500 per month. Now we still have to eat and pay for gas and all that good stuff, so after federal and local taxes, how much do you think is left? Now you said;
"I'm in the 5 boroughs. I'm pretty secure in the knowledge of what things cost here.
I didn't say $350K is rich. I said if those who make $350K don't have a little extra money lying around, then they are poor financial managers."
But the government considers you as rich as someone who makes $10 million, when it comes to taxation. Other than move to a different area, how would you better manage my money?
The AMT is a problem. Without the AMT, more could be deducted in high cost areas, thus evening things out a little. Considering in our area we only get back about half the money we send to Washington, while places like New Mexico get back TWICE the amount they send to Washington, it is only fair.
I'm not really sure what you are talking about, and I'm not really sure whether or not I am in the top 2%, but I did get a tax break. If the top 5% only make $155K, that means that people in the top 5% are plain old, run of the mill, middle class around here. Actually, with school teachers making in the 90s, 155 is not so great for a family of 4 with 2 wage earners. In my area, a modest 1970s 4 bedroom split on 1/4 acre in a good school system will run you 800K-900K. Property taxes run around 20K-25K per year. That' what I get for living in a blue state. So as I said, that kind of money doesn't get you very far when all other bills are factored in, and the tax break was helpful.
No, you are NOT in the upper 2%...Oprah is.....had lunch with the Kennedys lately ...or Letterman...then you are NOT in the upper 2%...and you wouldn't be in here.
No, you are NOT in the upper 2%...Oprah is.....had lunch with the Kennedys lately ...or Letterman...then you are NOT in the upper 2%...and you wouldn't be in here.
Absolutely correct... you are NOT wealthy unless you have the means to pick up a phone and call Oprah and arrange a dinner... if not your only upper middle class... the wealthy are the ones who cheat on their taxes and they have the means to do it... others not so much...instead we pick on the upper middle class... and call them "wealthy" so we can feel better about stealing their money...
No, you are NOT in the upper 2%...Oprah is.....had lunch with the Kennedys lately ...or Letterman...then you are NOT in the upper 2%...and you wouldn't be in here.
LOL. I think you need to do a little research. Oprah is not only in the top 2%, she is in the top .00002%. The top 2% means 2 out of every 100 people in America. Lets see, 2% of 300mil is 6mil. So there are 6 million Billionaire TV stars walking around the US? No, the top 2% is something like 200K or 250K per year.
You really want me to break down my monthly expenditures for you?
If you have a family in the NYC area, it is very easy to spend more than $6K on housing. In a very good school district, 1.2 Mil buys you a modest 3000 sq ft colonial (built in 1971).
This is NYC, not some place that was a dirt town in 1920! 3,000 square feet is absolutely enormous! And 1971 is practically BRAND NEW by NYC standards.
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If you put 20% down, at 6%, your monthly mortgage payment is 6K. Add 2K for property taxes,
So you living larger, way larger than you can afford by NYC. OK
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1K for utilities, 1k each 529 (x2) = 2k, 1k (total for 2 cars), each child is in preschool at 1k each = 2K
1K for utilities? I pay over $200 on level billing for about 900 square feet, and my bill is considered abnormally high for most people in a similar situation. Why are your utility bills $1000 a month? Are you including phone and cable and internet? OK, that's another $300 or so. Childcare? That's ALL YOU PAY? I pay ALMOST that much per month, and my income isn't nearly $350K. If I had an extra $10K a year, I'd be doing a lot better. You already have a lot more.
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, 2.5K into sep account, and 2K for student loan payments (was over 200K, I still owe 110K). Oh, and I almost forgot insurance. Between homeowners and auto we pay 9K per year, plus disability is another $500 per month. Now we still have to eat and pay for gas and all that good stuff, so after federal and local taxes, how much do you think is left?
What I think, is that you are trying to live a lifestyle that you should be able to afford in any other city in America easily, and you are trying to do it in NYC. It is fraudulent to claim how tough it is, since you can easily scale down significantly, and still live rather large. People live on half that in NYC and can pay for private school, live in very nice spacious apartments in Manhattan, and afford nice vacations.
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But the government considers you as rich as someone who makes $10 million, when it comes to taxation. Other than move to a different area, how would you better manage my money?
No, only for the money that you make over $350. Not the money you make UNDER $350. Let's not forget that little bit.
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The AMT is a problem. Without the AMT, more could be deducted in high cost areas, thus evening things out a little.
Agreed, but I challenge you to say that the AMT hits you harder than it does a Dual Income family making $150, also living in NYC.
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Considering in our area we only get back about half the money we send to Washington, while places like New Mexico get back TWICE the amount they send to Washington, it is only fair.
That's an entirely different discussion. Federal taxation really needs to take regional costs into account.
Absolutely correct... you are NOT wealthy unless you have the means to pick up a phone and call Oprah and arrange a dinner... if not your only upper middle class... the wealthy are the ones who cheat on their taxes and they have the means to do it... others not so much...instead we pick on the upper middle class... and call them "wealthy" so we can feel better about stealing their money...
Higher upper middle class people can afford to give back a little bit of the money that they made on the backs of the people who worked under them. That is the whole point of progressive taxation. It's called Equal Burden. And one can't make a credible argument why equal burden isn't as fair as any other notion of fairness. But yes, the top .1% are the people we should definitely be looking at.
Higher upper middle class people can afford to give back a little bit of the money that they made on the backs of the people who worked under them. That is the whole point of progressive taxation. It's called Equal Burden. And one can't make a credible argument why equal burden isn't as fair as any other notion of fairness. But yes, the top .1% are the people we should definitely be looking at.
Why should one be punished for being successful? In addition, these people probably pay more in taxes in one year than you will in your lifetime.
Okay fine. Tax the wealthy, just enjoy being the Zimbabwe of North America.
I think the outsourcing of our manufacturing and our jobs is already making us the Zimbabwe of NA.
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