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Old 07-03-2015, 06:46 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,932,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
None of it happens without these big government programs. Odd you would argue for Bernie being against this big government boondoggle and then argue with me.when I say we need less government programs.

TTP Being an excellent example.

I don't think you actually know what you are arguing.
TTP is not a government program but an agreement to increase undemocratic corporate influence over our lives, at the expense of democratically elected governments. And Bernie Sanders has been the strongest advocate against all of these "trade" agreements.

Bernie Sanders is for re-claiming the government for the people. Not less government. That's just an invitation for corporations to exploit the people without any oversight.
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Old 07-03-2015, 06:51 PM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,064,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
TTP is not a government program but an agreement to increase undemocratic corporate influence over our lives, at the expense of democratically elected governments. And Bernie Sanders has been the strongest advocate against all of these "trade" agreements.

Bernie Sanders is for re-claiming the government for the people. Not less government. That's just an invitation for corporations to exploit the people without any oversight.
Excuses like bolded is why we can't have nice things and why no one has commented on my post about jumping on the Hillary bandwagon.

Less government does NOT equal NO oversight. Quit thinking so small. So you are saying you support the huge military budget and the trillions we are wasting overseas?
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:22 PM
 
4,571 posts, read 3,513,301 times
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Old Man Sanders is THE perfect candidate for the dems. I hope they're smart enough to make him their candidate. If they go with Cankles, they are sure to lose. They'll probably lose anyway based on historical norms but Cankles will assure a loss. OMS at least gives them a fighting chance and someone to get excited about. He's one of them, Cankles is not.
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:35 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,932,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Excuses like bolded is why we can't have nice things and why no one has commented on my post about jumping on the Hillary bandwagon.

Less government does NOT equal NO oversight. Quit thinking so small. So you are saying you support the huge military budget and the trillions we are wasting overseas?
Sorry for not making myself clear. No, I dont support the military industrial complex or the prison industrial complex at all, and there are huge savings to be made there, I totally agree with you. This part of the government only serve the corporate elite. On the other hand, the billionaire class hate legislation that make life easier for the middle class, so we should make sure that every American have paid sick days. Its a disgrace that people risk being served by sick employees in restaurants because they cant afford to take a day off.
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:38 PM
 
18,794 posts, read 8,418,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeymags View Post
Is it not? Most ambitious people I know are leading rather satisfactory lives. My biggest gripe is having a federal / state combined tax rate of 40% and paying thousands each year into a social security system that won't exist for me! but I don't think ol' Bernie will be helping that.
Sure he will or would. Shoring up the middle class is his biggie, and SS is a large part of that biggie. He has hired Stephanie Kelton as his economic adviser. Modern money people understand why SS can last into perpetuity. If we the people so desire.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIYpdoKKsKc
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:42 PM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,064,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Sorry for not making myself clear. No, I dont support the military industrial complex or the prison industrial complex at all, and there are huge savings to be made there, I totally agree with you.

So why did you initially have a problem with my argument? It's a Pavlovian response. Someone says cut and the "we can't get rid of regulations" argument automatically comes out.

The government can be far smaller and we can still have regulations.

Quote:
This part of the government only serve the corporate elite. On the other hand, the billionaire class hate legislation that make life easier for the middle class, so we should make sure that every American have paid sick days. Its a disgrace that people risk being served by sick employees in restaurants because they cant afford to take a day off.
One size does not fit all. Blanket solutions will only cause some to lose their jobs to cheap overseas labor.
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:57 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,932,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
So why did you initially have a problem with my argument? It's a Pavlovian response. Someone says cut and the "we can't get rid of regulations" argument automatically comes out.

The government can be far smaller and we can still have regulations.


One size does not fit all. Blanket solutions will only cause some to lose their jobs to cheap overseas labor.
It depends what you mean by "smaller". Certain aspects of the government is bloated, like the military and prison complex, while other aspects are pitifully inadequate like support for higher education and child care which is disastrous for the middle class. Every person, regardless of their parents' income should have the chance to reach their full potential, so public higher education should be tuition free. This is the best investment America can do to compete with the rest of the world.

Regarding paid sick days or paid family leave, companies will always scare people into not fighting for their rights. Many countries have these policies in place and they have higher labor force participation rates than America. Paid sick leave ensures that customers do not risk being served by sick people, so it is good for society, and it gives the American worker security, something the billionaire class are doing everything to prevent. Worker insecurity is one of their main weapons against the American worker, but people are saying enough is enough, it is time to fight for the rights of the people. The billionaire class is doing just fine. Bernie Sanders has the authenticity and pedigree to be the leader in the White House that the plutocracy hates and the people love.
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Old 07-03-2015, 09:08 PM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,064,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
It depends what you mean by "smaller". Certain aspects of the government is bloated, like the military and prison complex, while other aspects are pitifully inadequate like support for higher education and child care which is disastrous for the middle class. Every person, regardless of their parents' income should have the chance to reach their full potential, so public higher education should be tuition free. This is the best investment America can do to compete with the rest of the world.
It's not disastrous. We could improve on it but its not disastrous.

We've had the discussion concerning " free" higher education but few are willing to accept the limitations that other countries put on these programs (such as only the better students get it) because otherwise its totally unaffordable.

Unless we are willing to address bloat, waste and fraud elsewhere, its unaffordable now.

Quote:
Regarding paid sick days or paid family leave, companies will always scare people into not fighting for their rights. Many countries have these policies in place and they have higher labor force participation rates than America. Paid sick leave ensures that customers do not risk being served by sick people, so it is good for society, and it gives the American worker security, something the billionaire class are doing everything to prevent. Worker insecurity is one of their main weapons against the American worker, but people are saying enough is enough, it is time to fight for the rights of the people. The billionaire class is doing just fine. Bernie Sanders has the authenticity and pedigree to be the leader in the White House that the plutocracy hates and the people love.
"The billionaire class" is simply creating a boogyman so you can avoid actual discussions. Bill Gates doesn't offer sick days?
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Old 07-03-2015, 09:38 PM
 
Location: U.S.
9,512 posts, read 9,033,995 times
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And now Hillary is saying she stands behind nobody. Even though her audiences are beat by Bernie over 10:1, Hillary insists things are going well. She will not be outdone by championing her record of being more progressive than Sanders claims to be as the war between progressives and socialists continue.

Hillary's record? She's going to leverage all the free stuff she gave away that Bernie did not give away.

This is an AP report.
My Way News - Clinton says she takes a 'backseat to no one' among liberals
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Old 07-03-2015, 09:40 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,932,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It's not disastrous. We could improve on it but its not disastrous.

We've had the discussion concerning " free" higher education but few are willing to accept the limitations that other countries put on these programs (such as only the better students get it) because otherwise its totally unaffordable.

Unless we are willing to address bloat, waste and fraud elsewhere, its unaffordable now.



"The billionaire class" is simply creating a boogyman so you can avoid actual discussions. Bill Gates doesn't offer sick days?
Child care and higher education is a huge part of the expenses of middle class Americans and together with health care is at the core of Bernie Sanders' agenda to strengthen the middle class.

Its not unaffordable with tuition free public higher education. America is the richest country in the world. Countries far poorer than America have offered this for decades. It is not true that only the best students can go to college in countries like Germany, the Netherlands or Denmark. Anyone with decent grades can get a higher education in these countries, regardless of their parents' income. They invest their resources in their youth, believing it is the best investment they can make, instead of letting their wealthiest residents live like modern day aristocracy and not paying their fair share of taxes.

Regarding requiring employers to offer paid family leave and paid sick days, like every other industrialized country offer, this is the only way to make sure that companies dont exploit their workers by punishing workers who do use it. This race to the bottom needs to end and the American worker deserves a break. The corporate elite have for too long pitted workers against each other while grabbing the vast majority of the gains, leaving crumbs for the 99%.

Wall Street politicians will argue that we can hardly afford anything that benefit everyday Americans while the truth of the matter is that there is a stupendous amount of prosperity in America, enjoyed by a tiny elite. It is time for the plutocracy who enjoy the benefits of America to pay their fair share of taxes. Their threat of doom and gloom should be seen for what it is, cheap rhetoric. Plenty of social democratic countries with less wealth than America offer all of these benefits to their people and they are doing just fine, with strong labor markets and happy workers, like Germany and the Scandinavian countries. Enough is enough.

Last edited by PCALMike; 07-03-2015 at 09:55 PM..
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