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Old 07-05-2015, 04:14 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,999 posts, read 12,857,418 times
Reputation: 8355

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Quote:
Originally Posted by woxyroxme View Post
Bernie Sanders is not as wrong as Hillary is. Clinton/Bush are establishment insiders, they are owned by the elites and beholden to the international bankers and the multinational corporatists, they don't care about the average person. Clinton/Bush are two sides of the same lead penny, if either of them win - you lose.
Yep.
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Old 07-05-2015, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
5,768 posts, read 3,196,674 times
Reputation: 6094
Default Is he really wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
Bernie was suppose to be the democratic tea party version of liberals but his socialistic viewpoints have even liberally dems concerned should he overpower Hillary for the nomination.

https://m.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/c...ut_everything/
Lets do a little search through American history. 100 years ago Eugene Debs ran for President several times. He was a card carrying Socialist. What is interesting about him was that his turnouts were close to a million more than once and once even after he was thrown in prison for being against WW 1. Historically these were times of great labor strife. During the great depression more people left the US than came in and the Communist party and vote was considered a threat to the owner class. Roosevelt was called a traitor to his class but things were so bad for the 99%, he was really their savior. That Communist threat was responsible for many of the advances made by the working person up to 1980.

The pendulum has once again swung against the working person. The line between work life and home life has never been so blurry. Salaries have been flat for thirty years. Republicans are hook line and sinker in line behind the multinational corporations. Hillary Clinton is Republican party lite. I don't know where Jim Webb stands yet. So for now it is Sanders for President. He does speak the truth. The owner class is well organized against us.
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Old 07-05-2015, 06:05 PM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,716,319 times
Reputation: 5006
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Nothing so dramatic needs to happen. The system is like it is because people are unwilling to vote for the candidate instead of the party. They are so caught up on the false war of Democrat vs Republican that they couldn't possibly contemplate voting for a candidate for the other party. Hence, Clinton vs Bush. Both candidates are absolutely counting on this.

This isn't the fault of the system. It's the fault of the people who keep voting for the same ass-holes because they don't want the ass-hole from the "other" party to get in. The day this changes is the day the system fixes itself. It happens from time to time, but it's been a long time.
But when only Democrats & Republicans are allowed in the debates how does an Independent get visibility? How does an Independent raise enough money without corporate sponsorship to even get on ballot in every single state? How does an Independent get their message out when they don't get airtime on the major news networks? The D & R's have stacked the deck to ensure it stays a two party system, at least at the National level.
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Old 07-05-2015, 06:21 PM
 
79,902 posts, read 43,896,766 times
Reputation: 17184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
But when only Democrats & Republicans are allowed in the debates how does an Independent get visibility?
I was initially against Sanders because he ran as a (D) as opposed to the (I) he claims to be. (it can be looked up on here) but a friend of mine made this argument and I agreed it is probably his only real chance and that I would overlook it for now.

Running as an (I) he gets in fewer debates. He doesn't get the money he will get as a (D). If he loses then he can still run as an (I).

Quote:
How does an Independent raise enough money without corporate sponsorship to even get on ballot in every single state? How does an Independent get their message out when they don't get airtime on the major news networks? The D & R's have stacked the deck to ensure it stays a two party system, at least at the National level.
If he loses the nomination, I hope he still gives it a go as an (I).
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Old 07-05-2015, 06:25 PM
 
18,737 posts, read 8,352,265 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
But when only Democrats & Republicans are allowed in the debates how does an Independent get visibility? How does an Independent raise enough money without corporate sponsorship to even get on ballot in every single state? How does an Independent get their message out when they don't get airtime on the major news networks? The D & R's have stacked the deck to ensure it stays a two party system, at least at the National level.
Independents and 3rd party candidates have been in debates.

Nader. Perot. I'm fairly certain John Anderson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Anderson
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Old 07-06-2015, 03:01 AM
 
52,433 posts, read 26,400,600 times
Reputation: 21092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
But when only Democrats & Republicans are allowed in the debates how does an Independent get visibility? How does an Independent raise enough money without corporate sponsorship to even get on ballot in every single state? How does an Independent get their message out when they don't get airtime on the major news networks? The D & R's have stacked the deck to ensure it stays a two party system, at least at the National level.
The TV debates are nothing but a dog & pony show now. They are run by the thoroughly discredited corporate controlled media who has every interest in keeping the status quo going. They don't care if a democrat or republican is elected. In fact it's irrelevant to them. What matters is that it IS a democrat or republican that is beholding to them.

Good news. These TV debates have only been around for a relatively short amount of time vs the USA's history, and the people now have easier access to information than ever before in history. Those political adverts are becoming less and less important because of it.

If even a small number of people started to cross the line and simply start voting against the standing incumbent regardless of party, the system will change in one election cycle. Of course this won't happen because people are not willing to do this.
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Old 07-06-2015, 04:44 AM
 
34,258 posts, read 19,233,697 times
Reputation: 17237
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I was initially against Sanders because he ran as a (D) as opposed to the (I) he claims to be. (it can be looked up on here) but a friend of mine made this argument and I agreed it is probably his only real chance and that I would overlook it for now.

Running as an (I) he gets in fewer debates. He doesn't get the money he will get as a (D). If he loses then he can still run as an (I).



If he loses the nomination, I hope he still gives it a go as an (I).
He has made it clear that if doesn't win the D primary he will not run as a I and split the vote allowing a R to win.
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Old 07-06-2015, 04:55 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
36,910 posts, read 18,791,488 times
Reputation: 14697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
You need to keep in mind not all of us are communists
Neither is Bernie. He's a Democratic Socialist. Google it.
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Old 07-06-2015, 04:58 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
36,910 posts, read 18,791,488 times
Reputation: 14697
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
If there is less of it there is less to control.
That's true. Which services would you like to give up? Military? Highways? USDA inspections? OSHA standards? Something else...?
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Old 07-06-2015, 05:18 AM
 
79,902 posts, read 43,896,766 times
Reputation: 17184
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
He has made it clear that if doesn't win the D primary he will not run as a I and split the vote allowing a R to win.
I hadn't seen that and that would be unfortunate as it would show that he can't be honest with himself as to who he is.
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