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In 1861, the US was less than 100 years old. The ideas of liberty, state's rights, and revolution against oppression were fresh. The Southern people sincerely felt that they had every right to leave a union they had joined voluntarily following a successful revolution that overthrew a tyrannical government. George Washington was their hero (and, yes, he owned slaves).
There had been discord between the northern and southern states almost from the beginning. In fact, placing the nation's capital in DC to placate the South over the war debt issue (DC was considered pretty far south at that point), and it went downhill from there. And secession was not a novel idea. Indeed, it had been discussed and threatened by various states since soon after the beginning. There are scholarly arguments on both sides of the issue. The idea that voluntary entry into a Federation did not negate the voluntary secession therefrom has definite merit. Indeed, it wasn't a legal or constitutional argument that won the war - it was simply force of arms (the old "might makes right"). During the war, Lincoln actually assumed powers not bestowed on the POTUS, defied the Constitution, and generally did what he felt was right regardless of whether he actually had the legal right to do so.
It's easy to simply write off those who fought for the Confederacy as racist traitors, but it's also incorrect. Doing so demonstrates a shallow disregard of the complexities of history and the people who lived it. Most southerners didn't even own slaves - as has been mentioned. They fought against an invading army. Some years ago there was a TV miniseries on the subject - I can't remember if it was "The Blue and the Gray" or "North and South" - but there is a great scene that I think sums it all up. Two young soldiers, one US and one CSA, find themselves face to face away from the fighting. The Union fellow asks, "What's it like to own slaves?". The Southern boy, incredulous, replies "Slaves! We're lucky to own shoes!". The Union fellow, shocked, asks "Then why are you fighting?", to which the CSA fellow replies "We're fighting because you're down here." That's pretty much it in a nutshell for the average CSA soldier.
The difference between a revolution and a rebellion is victory. Remember that the Founding Fathers were also traitors - to England. And they wrote slavery into the Constitution because they owned slaves.
Yeah lol. I imagine the liberal elites from old money telling everyone else to feel guilty about slavery are more likely the ones with ancestor slaveholders.
Like Ben Affleck, another Democrat PC Nazi with family ties going back to owning slaves. I like him as an actor by the way.
The Confederate flag is a symbol of Southern pride to most, nothing more. It's the people not effected by it that care. I'm from Minnesota, we have Paul Bunyon & Babe the Blue Ox instead of the Confederate flag. If I wear a red flannel shirt, it doesn't mean I support deforestation.
The Confederate flag is a symbol of Southern pride to most, nothing more. It's the people not effected by it that care. I'm from Minnesota, we have Paul Bunyon & Babe the Blue Ox instead of the Confederate flag. If I wear a red flannel shirt, it doesn't mean I support deforestation.
Be careful, these PC Nazis are easily ramped up to demand you follow their guidelines...no more flannel shirts!
And Boston started the entire slavery thing. That's why many of us know that Boston is the seat of slavery and racism.
Do many of you know that was in the 1600's? Boston has become much more enlightened since then. Parts of the deep south? Not so much. BTW, Boston is also the 'seat' of the real Tea Party as opposed to the faux Tea Party.
I've reached my PC limit too. And many more Americans have, just like me. I will simply not be intimidated anymore. Facts, reason, and logic is on our side. Can't wait to stand up to them!
Stand up to them how?? They are trying to pass hate speech laws to silence you, they are banning images they find offensive (like our confederate flag), and they are even now firing people who speak publically about their conservative belief system. America is rapidly ceasing to be a free nation, and those who step out of the liberal line are being held to account. I even saw on the news how many who support traditional marriage are afraid to speak and promote their views. They fear lawsuits, loss of job or even going to jail for hate crime. (this is coming) Conservative Americans today are considered the equivalent of pointy hooded Klansman or the policeman holding the fire hose in 1950s Alabama. Political correctness is becoming official, its becoming enforceable and we have a choice. Be silent to preserve our lives or speak out and face the consequences. It is now THIER nation not ours. We live under their rule. We must not forget that reality. This will not change either, they hold a majority when it comes time to vote, and the states with highest population are deep blue and show no signs of changing. This is how they are forcing their will upon the Red states. Our rulers live in New York, New England or on the California coast. They control our laws through the courts, they control what our children learn in school and what they watch on TV. They control the corporations that employ us. We have no hope of changing this democratically and it is not going to stop here. What is next?? Likely more loss to our freedom of speech, more loss to states rights and a loss of our second amendment rights. You say no that is crazy?? Well thirty years ago government takeover of healthcare, banking and auto industry was unthinkable, Supreme court edics giving gays the right to marry, and wiretapping of US citizens all were unthinkable then too. In fact the people of thirty years ago would be shocked we have allowed it without a rebellion. Our founding fathers would also have been shocked and disgusted we have allowed it. We have lost our way, and as a consequence it now appears we need to obey the demands of Political correctness or face the consequences. The only other option is the one our founding fathers choose, and the one our confederate ancestors chose. However I don't believe we have that in us anymore. We are now a nation of sheep, we will simply cower before our overlords. This is our real problem, and our weakness is what allowed such un-American values to take hold in the first place.
Thanks for explaining your definition of southern heritage that is represented by the Confederate flag. I don't know anyone who believes that all southerns owned slaves. To me what the flag represents is two-fold. 1) It represents a part of America that begrudges the fact that they lost the war and wants to glorify and take pride in the fact that they were rebels fighting for, you say, states rights and others say was over the right to own slaves. Either way, the south lost the right to own slaves and lost the right to withdraw from the Union. 2) Since the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s, when the flag started being put up to protest the desegregation of the south, it's original meaning changed. It became a symbol of racism which was later set in cement by White Supremacy groups who now use the flag (not to mention the KKK using the flag long before that). To me, people like you who believe the flag is all about heritage should want to take it meaning back from the racists and put the flag in museums, Civil War Memorial Battle fields and other places where history is taught regarding the war that helped shape the south. It's a relic of the past and needs to be treated as such.
"it's original meaning changed.'
IMO, here iIS the problem.
It's MEANING HAS NEVER CHANGED.
A small fanatical group "stole"the flag and used it for their own sick agenda.
Only small minds see the flag for what those that stole it represent.
The Second Confederate Navy Jack (the flag people are calling the Confederate Flag, though it was never officially "the" flag of the Confederate) was used exclusively by the North Virginia Confederate Army. It was used as a battle flag during the Civil War. As a battle flag, it was a very specific statement: We want slavery, and we are willing to fight and die for it. That was what the Civil War was all about. That was the point of the war. And "that side" of the war is exactly what that specific flag represented.
It was never a flag raised during peace time, it was never a flag sanctioned by the government, north or south, to represent the government or its people, outside of battle.
To people outside the deep south (not even all the south - just the deep south) it represents an era when the country was split and took arms to fight for, and against, slavery. It ALSO represents the Dukes of Hazzard.
For the reason of the second representation, it doesn't offend me to see it flown on someone's private property. Especially not in the south. I acknowledge that many southerners have chosen to embrace the flag as their "symbol of the south" even though that's not what it was meant to do when it was actually used in any kind of official capacity.
What I DO object to, is it being flown on government property. It'd be like the state house of some random state flying the Republican flag, but not the Democrat flag (if such things exist). These government entities aren't supposed to pick which side they're on. They're on the side of the USA, not the north, or the south, or the democrats, republicans, socialists, libertarians, etc. etc.
So if you want to raise your Second Confederate Navy Jack on the flagpole outside your house, and have it painted on the hood of your car, have at it. I realize you're raising it out of ignorance, and misplaced pride in a symbol that doesn't really symbolize what you think it symbolizes. Just keep it off the lawns of government-funded properties (including your public schools, town halls, state houses) unless they're part of historic landmarks and being displayed specifically as such.
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